3825's Blog

Baseball 2010 Discussion

By 3825 | View all Posts
Posted Tuesday, February 02, 2010 10:44 AM   35 comments

The most important aspect for me in handicapping baseball is finding value, most around here do the same, but it tends to get tricky when we start discussing “how we find value”.  One of the stats I like is BABIP, or Batting Average Balls Put in Play.  This stat can be used with hitters and pitchers, and it’s important to note that the MLB average usually hovers right around .300.  This is one stat that we can use to measure a player’s luck.  ERA can be very misleading, especially when using a small sample size.  How many times have you seen some pitcher with a 0-2 record and era north of 8.00 in his last 3 starts win easily as a +145 dog in that 4th start?

 

For me, I like BABIP because it can allow one to find value in either backing one team, or in fading another team.  Most players will regress to the mean over time.  There are some exceptions, for instance, Eric Byrnes has historically been a pop fly hitter, and those pop ups rarely fall in for hits, so his BABIP is typically below major league average.

 

Looking at last season, there were 139 pitchers that had at least 10 starts before the All-Star Break, and one finds that Dan Haren posted the best BABIP in the majors when he clocked in at .234.  This led to an overall opp. avg of  .189 over that stretch, as Arizona win 11 of  18 games he started.  For me, this would have been fade material in the second half.  Arizona still won 8 of his 15 second half starts, but his opp. avg went up to .267 and his era was closing in on 5.00. 

 

Scott Feldman offers another example,  he closes the first half with a BABIP of  .241, which led to the Rangers winning 11 of his first 15 starts.  His era was 3.21 and his opp avg was .222 as a starter in the first half.  In the second half, add 40 points to that opp average, more than a point to his era, as the Rangers only won 9 of his 16 starts.

 

Both Haren and Feldman ranked in the lower half of the leader board when you look at the 122 pitchers who had at least 10 starts in the second half of the season, and both were north of .300 with their BABIP.

 

If you blindly faded Haren and Feldman in all of their 31 post-break starts, you would have lost 1.23 units, but I think it’s reasonable to think a handicapper would have found 3 to 5 games in which you avoided the auto-fade because of the price and/or other factors.  It could have the Feldman game in Tampa when the Rays were laying 66 cents juice, or maybe it would have been the game in KC when the Royals were laying 32 cents.    Ditto for Haren, would you have laid -154 or -142 to fade him?  Eliminate those 4 games, and that 1.23 unit loss becomes a 3.46 unit profit. 

 

BABIP can be a decent leading indicator when looking for over valued favorites and under valued dogs.  Certainly, other factors come into play, most notably the price I’m paying.

 

Throw in your two cents, which indicators help you find value ?

35 comments
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Gee_Gee says:
02/02/10 12:12PM
appreciate the insight, goodstuff
FoolishTool says:
02/02/10 06:16PM
nice, but can you submit this topic again in late march, with the superbowl coming up and basketball wide open little time for baseball yet!
Ciao says:
02/02/10 09:19PM

Pitchers tend to run hot and cold, and there only a few "workhorse" types that can consistently run out there  7, 8, 9 innings with high pitch counts.  There are certain over-rated pitchers who tend to sputter for a start or two after a stellar game with a high pitch count.  Look at Buerhle, after his perfect game, he did not record a win for nearly 5 or 6 weeks!

topperchris says:
02/02/10 11:01PM
 Great Info...
3825 says:
02/02/10 11:38PM

it's mainly seattle except for the random auto-plays, fade wakefield on the west coast, back rogers in oakland, stuff like that, otherwise it's just the Mariners.  my style demands a fair amount of time, and i right now i'm not organized enough to branch out to other games.

3825 says:
02/03/10 12:21AM

Another important stat for me is LOB %, percentage of base runners stranded.  The MLB average has been just north of 70% for the past several seasons.  When looking at a quality MLB pitcher, one can project regression from a rate that is substantially above that level, thereby giving me value in fading a certain pitcher, or I can project progression from a rate that is very low, thereby giving me value in backing a pitcher with a high ERA.

 

Justin Verlander offers a great example of this from last season.  In April, Verlander posted the worst LOB rate of the 100 qualifying pitchers in MLB. He stranded only 50.3% of his runners.   It was very unlikely that Verlander would continue to strand runners at that rate.  In 2006, he was above the MLB average for the season when he closed in on 80%, while in 2007 he was at 75%, as expected he regressed in 2008, but only to 65%.  Based on this 3 year sample size, is it reasonable to think he maintains a staggering low LOB rate of 50% ?

 

Looking back at Verlander in 2009, he could have been backed for pretty cheap prices following his horrible April starts.  And his horrible April can be explained quite easily . . . 50% of his base runners scored, opposing batters recorded hits 40.8% of the time they made contact, his FIP was a good 3.13 (Fielding Independent Pitching, more on this in a later post) while his ERA soared to 6.75. 

 

Now let’s look at the month of May.  Verlander went 5-0 in 6 starts with the Tiger losing his only ND.  In those 6 starts his average price was -115.  Quite a deal for a pitcher that would finish with 19 wins and 3rd place finish in the Cy Young balloting.  How did Verlander turn his season around ?  Opposing batters still put balls in play, but now those batted balls found Tigers defenders more often, his BABIP was a very reasonable .292 in May.  And when hitters did reach base, Verlander stranded them 84.7% of the time.  Sure he posted a better K-BB ratio of 5.09 in May, but a 3.78 ratio in April is hardly poor. 

 

In April, Verlander suffered from bad luck which allowed opposing teams to get base hits at a rate that was unlikely to be sustained over the course of a season, which in turn led to a lower than normal LOB rate.  In my opinion, this created a situation where the average handicapper and/or odds maker undervalued Verlander in May.  And that’s what we are looking for.  A Cy Young candidate laying on average -115 for an entire month while facing such powerhouses as Cleveland twice, Minnesota, Texas, Kansas City, and Baltimore.

mmac66 says:
02/03/10 06:01PM

I don't mind looking at last three game stats.....you just have to dig in a little and make sure there isn't one game skewing the stats, also see what teams they have faced. Make sure it makes sense. I like looking at lefty/righty stats.....have to pay attention to the bullpens, I think there are only about 11 competent relievers in MLB right now .....Good to know which teams play good/bad defense as well. Great pitchers can be victimized by a team with no offense and/or poor fielding. Lots to look into and I think that's why it's fun, at least it is for me.

I enjoy your posts 3825. Not sure how I missed this one for two days.

topperchris says:
02/03/10 06:06PM
Look forward to your info in baseball season...Bet your top notch on picks 3825...
Quasimango says:
02/03/10 08:01PM
Nice info!  Do you ever look at a pitchers GB/FB ratio? I know that generally the pitcher who induces the most ground balls is the better one, but is that information valuable compared to FIP and BABIP, or do those two stats incorporate most of the knowledge you'd need?
help says:
02/03/10 10:02PM
The thing to remember is how are these teams playing in the moment and

are they hot and schedule is key.  Certain teams always play each other

tough.

i was gonna type this same thing, but i'm overly wordy and it would of been 3 paragraphs and anyone reading would have been lost before they figured out what i was even saying

baseball is SUCH a long season, i like to hit trend reversals, and ride them.

3825 says:
02/03/10 10:08PM

exactly . . . that's why i like to take advantage of a price that I think is overly influenced by a small sample size.  there is no way that verlander would allow hits at the rate he was allowing them, or that haren or feldman would limit hits at the rate they were doing so.  eventually the prices tend to catch up with this "new trend", but we can take advantage in the interim.

topperchris says:
02/03/10 10:17PM
    great info...
help says:
02/03/10 11:47PM


i think i asked this about a year ago, but is there a good site you use for SABER stats?

and, which Aaron Harang is the real harang? last year, or two years ago did he have overly bad luck last year or overly good luck two years ago?

one stat i like to look for his how each pitcher pitches in each particular park. i think it has more to do with the line of site from the batter to the pitchers hand/release point and the backdrop. maybe that sounds stupid but i think there's something to that. i mean, you could say Wandy is stellar at home. what if he gets traded to another team, is he a great home pitcher still, or if he pitches a road game with his new team at Houston is he going to perform better?
3825 says:
02/04/10 01:27PM

be easy . . . here's my take on this.  First, I like Pitcher at Ballpark stats in cases in which I either have a large sample size, or a plausible reason as to why a pitcher should be good or bad at a specific ballpark.

for instance, Jarrod Washburn has shown a good ability to pitch on Domes, i think he historically succeeded in that area because he historically has a GB-FB ratio that shows he gets more flyball outs than a normal pitcher.  Assuming he has decent outfielders who can handle the roofs, the turf has no impact on his flyballs, while a GB pitcher is potentially prone to seeing eye singles, balls that would be outs on grass turn into hits in Minnesota or Tampa.

Tim Wakefield is the exact opposite.  He has excelled in domes, but has struggled mightily on the west coast over a pretty large sample size this decade.  In wakefield, i can make a case based on the large sample size, and I can give a plausible reason . . . the air inside the domes is predictable, while the air in every west coast ballpark tends to get very heavy at night, even in southern california.  Anaheim isn't as bad as San Diego or LA, but you can feel it there after the sun goes down.  Wakefield has consistently struggled in all these ballparks, which are all within 10 miles of the Pacific Ocean, and none of these places tend to have that warm humid air that you find at the ballparks near the Atlantic.

another angle would be Carlos Silva, a righthanded pitcher who has historically struggled to get groundball outs vs lefty hitters pitching half his games in a ballpark that only favors left handed flyball hitters.  Safeco favors left handed pitchers, while fenway favors right handed pitchers.  in these cases, I might read more into a small sample size than i normally would, if a specific pitcher conformed to these theories even if he had limited starting or innings pitched data, (between 4-8 starts).

fangraphs is a favored site of mine for saber stats, there claim to fame is their predictor graphs, but last i checked those predictor graphs DO NOT take into account the players playing, they are situational only.  thus every team starts the game with a 50% chance of winning.

a quick glance at Aaron Harang's numbers, and I can't find anything too out of whack.  his BABIP was at a career high last season of .339, but that is not horribly higher than his career average of .319, or the .325 he posted in 2006 when he won 16 games.  it is substantially higher than the .298 he had in 2007 when he went 16-6 though. that explains some of it, also, his K ratio has declined the past two seasons, that explains a bit more. in addition, his HR's allowed per Flyball has also slightly increased over the past two seasons, and he has allowed more flyballs over that same time period.  couple these factors with no improvement in his LOB %, and you get back to back sub par season. in harang's situation, I think a case can be made that age is catching up with him, he turns 32 in May.  in simple terms, he might not be as good as he once was.

re: home-road splits,  again, i need a large sample size in order to make this case for a player changing teams.  with small sample sizes, it could be ballpark factors, or simply bad luck in the key areas of BABIP or LOB%.  ervin santana was a classic example, for a long time, he could not pitch worth a shit on the road. in most cases, i think it's critical that you first consider ballpark/opponent/luck factors before determining whether or not a player is a home or road player.

in fangraphs, you can search for players, as well as leaderboards.  i also use hardball times, but the stats are a bit trickier to deal with.

veto22 says:
02/08/10 08:39PM
Where do you find the BABIP stats?
3825 says:
02/20/10 02:21AM
stats inc for picthers ,or fan graphs for hitters and pitchers
3825 says:
02/23/10 08:21PM

looking at some of the props on Pinny, and one is in particular stands out . . . highest hit total by a mlb player . . . over-under 218.5.

this one popped of the screen due to my proximity to the leader in hits for the 2000 decade, ichiro.  who posted 225 hits last season in 146 games.  ichiro has been under that total in 4 of his 9 seasons, and in some of those cases, there is a plausible reason.  first in 2002, he was due some regression because mlb pitchers became more familiar with him,  in 2003, i have no excuse, but i think it's fair to say he was on horrible teams in 2003 and 2008, in in the latter season, he was the target of a fair amount of clubhouse adversity.

200 hits is a big deal for ichiro, he set a new record for consecutive 200 hit seasons last year, and he can tie pete rose for most overall 200 hit seasons if he gets there again this season.

i think ichiro has really benefitted from the wak system, he has given some, and wak is smartly letting ichiro play his game, and then trying to use that game to the team's advantage.  ichiro has only been hurt once in his career, and that was the first two weeks of last season.  certainly the 36 year old will eventually slow down, but i think it's fair to project him with better than 218 hits this season based on his 35 year old season of 2009.  no one disputes his preparation, and i think it's plausible that he will lose a step at some point, but he didn't do it last season.  57 of hits were of the infield variety,  5 more than he had in 2008.

3825 says:
02/23/10 08:38PM

looking at team totals,  the total for highest loss total for a mlb this season is 101.5

9 teams in the decade surpassed that dubious mark, but only a single team has done it in the past 4 seasons . . . the nationals in 2008 and 2009.  are we seeing a smidge more parity, or have the past 4 seasons been a slight abberation ?  2002 featured 3 horrible teams, while 2004 had two, and there was one each in 2003 and 2005.

the total for highest win total is 100.5 . . . . ten teams have met this par since 2000, but only one has done it in the past 5 years, the 2009 yankees.

in my opinion, we have correlated trends here, fewer 102 loss teams, and fewer 101 win teams in the latter half of the past decade. 

 

 

Depersio says:
02/23/10 09:13PM
3828,

Where are you finding BABIP, LOB %, etc. stats? Covers?


BarneysDad says:
02/26/10 08:26PM
Nice to see you back 3825, where did JR go ?
topperchris says:
03/02/10 03:54PM
  Hey I feel for you..Im a Reds fan.. Weve had possibly some of the worst managers.... Ray Knight- We wanted to do a 6 man rotation... Bon Boone- He was a bafoon and now Dusty Baker... We have a great young nucleous of pitching and said here Dusty you handle this young talented staff...Volquez blew his arm out last yr..He pitched Harang 7 innings in relief a yr and a half ago after starting 42 hours earlier..Hes never been the same since
3825 says:
02/27/10 01:43AM

JR will be back after closing ceremonies, perhaps sooner after watching the cover give up in the slalom today at creekside.

3825 says:
02/23/10 09:19PM

stats inc, a pay service . . . . fangraphs, and hardball times, free sites.

3825 says:
02/26/10 12:55PM

Here's a great site put together by some Ray's fans (i think) . . . it's kind of a Sabermetrics 101 type of website. . . . one stop shopping for explanations. 

http://saberlibrary.com/

3825 says:
02/27/10 12:42PM

Bedard is a classic example of the need to pay more attention to the bullpen than you might normally.  bedard has only retired batters in the 8th inning during 10 of his 141 career starts, and has only 1 career cg, meanwhile the hyphen (ryan rowland-smith) has pitched at least 7.0 ip in more than half of his 15 starts last season and has done it in 11 of 27 career starts. 

in the case of the mariners, i usually have a good handle on bullpen availability, thus it becomes a bigger factor for me when judging their chances of success or failure on a given day whenever i have a starting pitcher that i am not projecting to go very deep in a game.  a word of caution though . . . i can't quantify this, it's an insticnt thing . . . take the mariners doubleheader in chicago last season as an example . . . the mariners came into that day with a tired bullpen, and chris jakubauskas on the mound for game one . . . a seemingly perfect recipe for the mariners to fail based on their pitching performance . . . what happened ?  the mariners used exactly 3 pitchers for the entire day.  they still split the DH, but they lost game one for lack of offense and good sox pitching, not because jaku was left out there to suffer. 

when a bullpen is short, i think good managers do an effective job of getting their teams through it, they can get starters to throw more strikes, etc etc.  these teams may still lose games, but my instincts tell me not to read TOO much into short bullpens.  certainly it's a factor, and one that may have me avoid backing a team at -130, but it might not be enough for me to avoid a play on if i'm getting +130.

i may look at average fastball speeds when i'm trying to find a plausible reason for a pitcher's struggles.  it becomes a piece of the puzzle for me,  the hyphen has been notorious for leaving spring training with a fastball that is 3-5 mph slower than it was the previous september, thus he is a guy i might look to fade come this april IF  he is showing that slower fastball in spring games.

P/PA is a great stat for me, i like to use it to project a guy like Ian Snell into having a decent outing vs a free swinging group, or using it to project Snell into a bad outing vs a patient club.  Again, I won't make a play soley based on this stat, but let's say Snell is coming off of back to back good outings vs the Blue Jays and Tigers (the least patient AL teams), his last 3 starts stats look good, he's at home, and he's facing an underachieving Tampa Bay team.   based on several other factors, let's say Snell is a -150 favorite,  P/PA for Tampa (best in AL) won't be enough for me to take a stab with the dog, but I may have found some other factors, maybe it's a short Mariners pen, maybe it's the TB starter, maybe it's an Ump with a historically small zone,  P/PA may cause me to take an extra look at Tampa, thereby leading me to other factors that allow me to find value in backing the Rays.

3825 says:
02/27/10 01:32PM

i like strikes called %, and really like a consistent strike % over the past 3-5 seasons, but the best is when you can find a high/low strike% and a corellated over-under record.

for me, the further an ump gets from 62.8%, the better,  last season in MLB, 37.2% of all pitches were called balls, everything else was a strike, including every ball out into play.

covers has ump strike % and total records, but i would caution anyone from reading much into an ump's total record, unless you also have a correspnding strike % rate.  and i would add more caution when looking at a small sample size . . . let's say dale scott has been very middle of the road for 4 seasons, and now suddenly he's 8-2 to the under after 10 games behind the plate in 2010, the masses might think they have a sure thing by playing him under in that 11th game,  with just 10 games behind the plate and a long track record of being a very middle of the road ump, i would blindly play scott to be over in the 11th game, long before i would play him under. 

quest tech is long gone,  pitch f/x is the new standard, and it's been in every ballpark for a few yuears now, i would not go back more than 5 seasons when looking at umpire stats, becasue i do believe that pitch f/x has impacted some of the umps.

mmac66 says:
03/02/10 03:18PM

 

Nice to see Yuniesky Betancourt with a -21.3 UZR  .......oh well, he makes up for it by being such a patient hitter

God the Royals suck

 

mmac66 says:
03/02/10 03:19PM

 

And I say this because Betancourt was actually an improvement at SS for Kansas City

mmac66 says:
03/02/10 03:27PM

This quote is fabulous as well in explaining the futility of Kansas City......WAR is wins against replacement.....which, overly simplified means what would happen if a team had to replace their player at this position with a random minor-leaguer

 

*Yes, you can have a negative WAR. In fact, according to FanGraphs, the worst WAR any player has had since 2002 is Neifi Perez from the 2002 Royals. His -3.1 WAR eclipses the second place finisher, Yuniesky Betancourt from the 2009 Royals (-2.2 WAR).  Oh, those Royals…

 

How 'bout them Royals

mmac66 says:
03/02/10 03:43PM

I don't know how anybody could be measurably worse in most statistical categories than Tony Pena Jr but Betancourt manages to do it......Arguably the two worst everyday Shortstops this decade and quite possibly over the last quarter century and I had the privilige of watching them both in KC.

 

 

Sorry to derail your thread 3825.......you can get back to the business at hand now

Four_Point_Five says:
02/27/10 01:14PM

Speaking of Umpires...you mentioned a small strike zone. Is there a single stat, or grouping of stats you look at with umpires. I'm always suspicious when betters say so-and-so umpire has this-or-that strike zone...especially with the advent of quest-tech.


Four_Point_Five says:
02/27/10 09:20AM
Great stuff 3825,

--As for Feldman there was a great article about explaining how he transformed his game via the cut fastball. Apparently his cutter is more effective than either Mariano's or Holladay's. Here it is

-- 3825, just wondering if you look at how long a starter lasts in a game. For example someone like Eric Bedard, even during his healthy years never lasted long in a game. His carrer IP/game is less than 6. This means that a typical Bedard start would involve at least two relievers, probably 3 and maybe more. That's a lot of risk to assume if looking for value.

-- Lastly, I wish there was the Baseball Classic this year as each of those SP lost like 2 miles per hour on their fastball. That aside do you look at average speed of fastball (and stuff) in relation to last year. And if so, what is quickest easiest way to do so.

--Oh yeah, One of the things which I look at is P/PA (pitch per plate appearance) by the opposing team. For example Colorado absolutely drank every "milkshake" they faced with their outrageous team p/pa. Every game those Rockies would take, take, foul ball, foul ball...a pitcher to death. This has been the Red Sox modus operandi for years, well since they got a clue, and sent Garciaparra and his 3.25 p/pa packing. Anyway, do you look p/pa?

Thanks, and once again good stuff.     


 
JimMack6 says:
02/28/10 09:23PM
 Very interesting read
psantana357 says:
02/28/10 08:52PM
good stuff! nice to see you back!! 
CanadaCup says:
03/02/10 03:12PM
Excellent insight 3828 and much appreciated with the upcoming MLB season fast approaching.
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User: 3825
Joined: January 2006
Location: British Columbia
Team: Seattle Mariners
Occupation: Recreation

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