ClubDirt's Blog

Why not tax sugar sodas?

By ClubDirt | View all Posts
Posted Wednesday, March 10, 2010 01:15 PM   75 comments

based on the following premises, i support taxing sugar soft drinks but i'm interested to hear what the opponents say.  who wants to argue it?

1.regardless of whatever nonsense is going on in washington with health care reform, our health care system needs serious help

2. regardless of just about anything, this country needs to raise money

3. one of the reasons for 1 and 2 above is that people generally take shit care of themselves, are overweight and destined to have various, very expensive medical conditions like heart disease, diabetes, etc.

4. refined sugars, are a major, if not the major, contributor to such chronic and very expensive medical conditions

5. there is no nutritional value whatsoever in sugar drinks like coke, mountain dew, etc.

6. there is precedent for taxing things that fall into category five, i.e. cigarettes.

so, who's with me?

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art-frost says:
03/10/10 01:18PM
Spitfire15 says:
03/10/10 01:24PM
I'm with ya.  The junk food epidemic needs to stop.  I'm for putting warning labels on shit food like McDonalds too.
ClubDirt says:
03/10/10 01:28PM

i'm for taxing cigarettes too but they already tax the shit out of cigarettes.  the gov't has to be careful not to tax itself out of business.

do you have any specific comment on those premises or you just generally don't like the idea?

ClubDirt says:
03/10/10 01:31PM

ok. 

revengeissweet1 says:
03/10/10 01:31PM

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

I need my pepsi

ClubDirt says:
03/10/10 01:35PM
don't worry revenge, no one listens to me anyway, particularly my wife and kids.
BKinNYC says:
03/10/10 01:48PM

Because let's say a bottle of orange juice costs $1.50, and a Coke costs the same.  Do you honestly believe that if they raise the price of the Coke, they won't raise the price of the OJ, too?

It's basically a free pass to raise the prices on EVERYTHING.

captjohn67 says:
03/10/10 01:48PM

no thank you...but i would not be shocked if such a tax were levied...i am of the mindset that we need to use more common sense and spend within our means, no matter how comical this sounds  

Spitfire15 says:
03/10/10 01:50PM
I'm completely against most taxes, but I really wouldn't mind this one.


People don't realize how bad that shit really is for you - and the problem is that if you buy say a 24-case of mountain dew cans (which have something like 10 million grams of sugar per sip), you drink one and it makes you crave more... if you are sitting around (lets say doing work all day for school) you can easily drink 10 cans.  And its HORRIBLE for you.  Take any person who is out of shape and just cut the soda from their diet and they will see a difference.  IMO it is as bad as cigarettes, maybe even worse... cigarettes take decades to kill you, if they ever kill you at all.  Sugar sludge is guaranteed to make you less healthy than you were before you drank it.

Tax it, ban it, whatever.  Soda is bad.
ClubDirt says:
03/10/10 01:52PM

holde em, can't argue with that but that's not the world we live in.

BK, that doesn't address premise 1 or 2 which make it clear we do need to raise money and they are going to do it somehow so why not this way.

capt, you know something is coming.  tax that is, not common sense.

Spitfire15 says:
03/10/10 01:54PM


It sounds very comical because it's obvious that most people have absolutely no common sense at all and can't make any decisions for themselves.  Spend within our means?!?!?!  Are you crazy?!?!  Why would we do that when we can go open 10 credit cards and buy whatever we want. 

My point is people are fucking dopes!  I'd love to think that people can be responsible for themselves but frankly THEY CAN'T.  And it affects all of us, its another reason why Americans are so unhealthy - we engorge ourselves with sludge every day.

Unfortunately the big corp's make a killing on soda, so we won't see anything happen to slow it down.
Spitfire15 says:
03/10/10 01:57PM
Love this discussion because at first it does seem ridiculous to be so hard on soda.  But the more you think about it the more obvious it is that 'pop' is horrible for us and has no benefit.  It's a lot like cigarettes.
I-Got-5-On-It says:
03/10/10 01:57PM
The threat of these types of taxes on sodas,chocolate and junk food is a pretty clever way to raise political donations & contributions from Coca Cola,Mc D's,Hershey's et al.
ClubDirt says:
03/10/10 02:08PM
right spitfire.  why does no one objectively complain about taxes on cigarettes?  because it's always been that way?  because it's common knowledge that cigarettes are bad for you?  neither reason would seem to imply a soda tax isn't as warranted, or more warranted, than a cigarette tax. 
esplanade says:
03/10/10 02:21PM
I think ultimately it just points out how ridiculous universal health care ultimately becomes. Take care of yourself, your finances, your health, you family. Let other people do the same. Keep your hands out of my fucking pockets.
Spitfire15 says:
03/10/10 02:25PM


I like that thought.

[Insert 'GOOD THREAD' Emoticon]
I-Got-5-On-It says:
03/10/10 02:36PM

Fixed it for ya

I-Got-5-On-It says:
03/10/10 02:36PM

 

See if this works

I-Got-5-On-It says:
03/10/10 02:39PM

Normally copying and pasting the mods emotions should work but not this time

Spitfire15 says:
03/10/10 02:44PM
Well I appreciate the effort.
BostonKen says:
03/10/10 03:34PM
 Why give these Congressional Idiots more money? They already take 1/3 of every one's paycheck, yet they still can't manage the budget. So, the answer is to give them more of our money so they can mismanage that as well? No, the answer is to give them LESS money until they can prove to us that they can act like fiscally responsible adults.  

    Although, why are Religious Groups tax exempt? Time for these frauds to start carrying their monetary weight.The Catholic Church is loaded. Think about this: They paid off more than a billion dollars to rape victims without missing a step. Down the street from my house, they just tore down fairly new church the size of the White House and are throwing up a brand new building..The property is in a prime location.So,between  the building itself, the construction  and property it has to be worth a couple million bucks, easily.How much money do these turds have?They're like fucking Google. I know Religion is a protected enterprise but who said it has to be free? I have the right to buy a gun, but I don't get a free one. Makes ZERO sense. Same thing goes for all synagogues, temples, mosques, whatever building Scientologists use to pray to their alien god and any other group I have forgotten. About time these grifters cut a check.   
ClubDirt says:
03/10/10 03:40PM

boston, i agree 100%, particularly with taxing the religious groups. what a fuckin racket their nonprofit status is, religion is the biggest and oldest business there is. 

but practically, right or wrong, since the government is going to raise money, why not tax sugar sodas?  if we're going to get fucked, and we are, why not add some logic and reason to the process?

KOAJ says:
03/10/10 03:45PM
so we are attempting to regulate or tax soda because people are too stupid to take care of themselves? i used to like Mayor Mike but he's gone crazy

so when a responsible person wants to have a root beer that person has to pay extra b/c there are some who drink a 6 pack a day for 10 years and have developed diabetes

sorry not my problem and i really dont care and i will stop buying the occasional soda

remove the safety net and force people to be responsible for themselves and we wouldnt have half the problems in this country that we have now
Spitfire15 says:
03/10/10 03:47PM
You're right KOAJ, I guess I'm not for taxing it, but something should be done even if its just a warning label to tell morons that they will get fat and sick if they keep chugging mountain dew 10 times a day.
Spitfire15 says:
03/10/10 03:48PM
But IMO irresponsible people are not going to gain intelligence and become responsible just because the safety nets are gone - they will just be fucked and will end up in the gutter.
KOAJ says:
03/10/10 03:49PM


actually most sodas in this country use high fructose corn syrup b/c we already place a giant tariff on brazilian sugar which is much cheaper

so we tax the import sugar to protect american corn farmers putting an unhealthier product on the shelves for our citizenry

fucking idiots...all of them. they need to wall off DC like Mordor and let them eat each other alive and leave the rest of us alone
ClubDirt says:
03/10/10 03:53PM

you guys are living in a different world than i am.  no one is going to start using common sense.  no one is going to start being responsible with money.  the deficit isn't going anywhere.  the government isn't going to stop wasting money.  those are non sequiturs that are not responsive to my question.  let me repeat me previous question which seems to apply here: if we're going to get fucked, and we are, why not add some logic and reason to the process?

but koaj, to anwer your first paragraph, which is responsive, yes i do support taxing sodas and yes when a reasonable person decides to have a root beer, he should pay the extra tax.  because if we're going to tax something, why not sodas. 

just like if a reasonable person decides to smoke a cigarette or marijuana (which should be legal and taxed), he should be taxed because someone has to, apparently.  why not tax the person who is contributing to the enormous health care costs and is doing something with no value to himself or anyone else?

KOAJ says:
03/10/10 03:57PM


you need to have more faith in mankind's resiliency. if you had no food or water, would you learn how to hunt and fish or die hungry?


KOAJ says:
03/10/10 04:00PM
but koaj, to anwer your first paragraph, which is responsive, yes i do

support taxing sodas and yes when a reasonable person decides to have a

root beer, he should pay the extra tax.  because if we're going to tax

something, why not sodas.
----
what happens if you have one vice (steaks) and government decides that it needs to tax that to try and deter people who cant control themselves and eat 5 steaks a week and have heart attacks

opening up a can of worms with selective taxation here

BostonKen says:
03/10/10 04:01PM

It's not a bad idea, club. But, where does it stop? Coffee, cookies, Twinkies, should we tax them as well? How much money are we talking about that it would make a dent in the budget?.50 cents a can? What about when I order a rum and coke at a bar? Or, just a fountain soda at Papa Ginos. Are they going to tax me twice on my free refill?  I don't drink more than 2 soda products a week, so it wouldn't really bother me.What about a small business like a deli? I don't see how that would help their business? I guess I agree it's not a bad idea if we have to tax something since it is so cheap to begin with. Although, I would start with the Religious Groups first.
KOAJ says:
03/10/10 04:02PM

you guys are living in a different world

than i am.  no one is going to start using common sense.  no one is

going to start being responsible with money.  the deficit isn't going

anywhere.  the government isn't going to stop wasting money.  those are

non sequiturs that are not responsive to my question.  let me repeat me

previous question which seems to apply here: if we're going to get

fucked, and we are, why not add some logic and reason to the process?

---------

i dont think anyone disagrees however if you remove the power form government (taxation) then you remove its ability to be the "ass wiper" of society

if there are consequences to malinvestment or misbehavior then there will be a change in behavior

with our current government, on all levels, there are very little consequences so why would behavior change

its no different than training a puppy or raising a kid. encourage bad behavior (by condoning and not punishing) and you will get more of is

this isnt rocket science

KOAJ says:
03/10/10 04:03PM
is the goal of taxing soda to raise revenue or to deter fatties from drinking a 2 liter a day and draining our healthcare resources?
captjohn67 says:
03/10/10 04:17PM
it is to raise revenue to rob Peter to pay Paul  
ClubDirt says:
03/10/10 04:34PM

yeah, that's the "where do we draw the line?" argument which is a legitimate concern but applies in just about every case of new taxation or expansion of taxation.  we have to make a decision and we have to draw the line.  that's why we elect intelligent, responsible people, to make those tough decisions. 

 

Spitfire15 says:
03/10/10 04:45PM


I would - then everyone else would rob me for my food and water instead of LEARNING.

I have faith in mankind, but not Americans
lbcake says:
03/10/10 05:03PM
ah ...the reek of socialism
chilitokid says:
03/10/10 05:10PM
Most fat people I see drink diet coke! And they're pretty good at hiding what's in the big McDonalds bag.
Spitfire15 says:
03/10/10 05:17PM
Diet coke is so healthy
gimmedempoints says:
03/10/10 05:35PM
Remember when a candy bar was around 50 cents just a few years ago...now you walk into a gas station and can't get one for less than a buck.
KOAJ says:
03/10/10 06:28PM


i just spit up my water reading this

thank you
BKinNYC says:
03/10/10 06:54PM

Bottom line is that the government wants more money, so they're going to use the guise of "we want healthier Americans" to get it.

Also, like every issue, most people's opinion depends on how much it affects them.  I hardly drink beer, and probably drink more soda. 

So apparently, there's no reason to tax alcohol through the roof, even though there are millions of alcoholics and drunk driving incidents daily.  That's socially acceptable.  We're more concerned with the guy who gets fat off a bottle of Coke 

revengeissweet1 says:
03/10/10 06:59PM

revengeissweet1 says:
03/10/10 07:01PM

yeah I just paid $1.69 for Peanut Butter Cups, 4 pieces in the pack

ClubDirt says:
03/10/10 07:37PM

i put that in there for you.  i thought you'd like it.

so, it looks like it's just me and spitfire in favor of the sugar soda tax and it's unanimous that the gov't is trying to fuck us and squeeze more money to waste no matter what happens.  
good talk.
ClubDirt says:
03/10/10 07:38PM

that is, it's unanimous as long as donjuan doesn't enter the discussion.
Spitfire15 says:
03/10/10 07:50PM
Eh you might be on your own.  I'm not very educated in politics, I was just having a discussion.  My point is just that I'd really like to see something done about soda, regardless of what it is.  Generally I'm not in favor of taxation but it seemed to me that this really wouldn't hurt consumer's at all, since there are other drink alternatives that would be untaxed and infinitely healthier, it's not like adding more taxes for business owners that really trickle down to taking money out of everyone's pockets.  It is a slippery slope though..
.
Spitfire15 says:
03/10/10 07:56PM
I don't know where I stand yet.  That's the point of discussing it.  Rarely does anyone involved in any kind of politics actually look for a solution, they just want to shout and be as far to their side of the spectrum as possible.


Did anyone see this study?
-An 18% tax would cause the avg person to lost 5 lbs. each year
-Sugary beverages make up 9% of total calories for adults & children

That's if you believe Harvard.

All I know for sure is that I cut most 'sugary beverages' out of my diet about 6 months ago and I'm in much better shape than I was 2 years ago.  I didn't change my diet at all other than cutting out the ridiculous things like fast food, 'pop', and candy ... and I feel great.
dillon24 says:
03/10/10 08:52PM

the whole country is based on making money off of your addictions. which leads to crazy health care costs in the long term. so im not sure how they can tax just soda. they would have to tax anything deemed unhealthy but i guess soda would be a start.

this whole countries economy is based on shit that nobody needs.look at the money we waste on cell phones alone.if you dont buy a new car every 2 years the economy goes south.

lbcake says:
03/10/10 08:55PM

While we're at it, let's give the gov power of attorney to everything we do.

Oh (big) brother...

mr_bollox says:
03/10/10 08:58PM
god knows what lobbying power coke and pepsi have
misfit_aka says:
03/11/10 09:12AM
why not tax EVERYTHING?????!!!!!! asshole
rocky2278 says:
03/11/10 10:09AM

I agree with the where does it end mindframe.  I have an occasional coke,  maybe two or three a month but I say no!..   If we were to tax everything that made this country fatasses, the list would be long.  Chips, coffee, cookies, candy, processed canned foods, frozen dinners, pizzas, fast foods...etc  

My idea of real reform would start with the poor people since they are disproportionately obese.  This may be cold and heartless but let's limit what you can buy with ebt (food stamps) a little more.  I hate seeing these people in front of me at the market buying sodas, sugary cereals, chips and frozen pizzas with govt. money. 

help says:
03/11/10 10:18AM


bingo. sugar is already taxed to high hell, and corn is subsidized to high hell. I'd rather they lower the tax on sugar and stop subsidizing corn.

Your body has receptors for, and can at least process sugar. How does your body do with processing corn?  Ever look at your BM after eating some corn . 

Gov't pushes thru taxes, for you to consume more cheap corn, and less sugar. That in and of itself is unhealthy.

I say tax the hell out of Coffee. Shit is detrimental to your health.  Gov't can't afford to tax cigs any further, and they certainly coudlnt' afford for people to stop smoking them

what they should do is change the pack count from 20 cigs to 10 cigs. Then viola, companies are making more profits, and the 50 million pack-a-day smoker in this country just halved his/her cigg intake

Also tax Iced Tea, to the moon. very unhealthy (and like coffee i don't drink it )

I wish they could figure out a way to tax stupidity, we'd go from deficit to surplus overnight, and the lot of us who decide to fend for ourselves could stop subsidizing stupidity.  Lord knows there's no shortage of stupidity
ClubDirt says:
03/11/10 10:47AM

the "where does it end?" response is a logical response but not really relevant because it's a response to any new tax. 

the obvious answer is of course we shouldn't tax sugar sodas.  it's just an excuse for the government to raise more money to waste. 

but that's not an appropriate answer either because we all know the government is going tio do what it's going to do.  i'd love for the government to start being fiscally responsible.  as soon as we cure cancer, solve world hunger and end the animosity in the middle east, i think we might be ready to tackle our government's waste and spending problems. 

so, bringing us back to reality, and understanding that "where do we draw the line?" and "we shouldn't give the government another dime" and "if we tax this then why not that, that and that?" are really irrelevant comments, why not tax sugar sodas?

ClubDirt says:
03/11/10 10:49AM
in other words, i think the government is so fucked, that i have no hope that the government will ever reduce its size and make some real spending cuts.  i think the real conservative politician is dead.  i hope i'm wrong.
KOAJ says:
03/11/10 11:12AM

the "where does it end?" response is a logical response but not really relevant because it's a response to any new tax. 

--------

its more relevant than ever and has always been relevant

ClubDirt says:
03/11/10 11:15AM

i guess it's relevant for the government you'd like to have but not the one we're stuck with and the one we've had for many years.  it's relevant for optimists, not for pessimists.  you can tell which one i am. 

it's relevant when we get a conservative president and a congress that isn't obstructive.  is there such a thing?

riccardocerveza says:
03/11/10 11:30AM

One of the problems for lower income folks is that it's cheaper to feed their families junk than it is to eat healthy. So those frozen pizzas, Sunny-D, soda, processed meats (I'm talking cold cuts, not wangs), etc. are cheaper than heathier choices (other than H2O). So if we can make the healthy food more attractive to buy than the junk by either taxing the junk or maybe giving a tax rebate for buying food from our farmers, then more people would stand to win.

Just my 2 cents

Spitfire15 says:
03/11/10 11:42AM

Sounds about right to me riccardo, I'd like to eat healthier, can't afford it.

How about the price of organic food if that's what you're into
ClubDirt says:
03/11/10 12:03PM

yeah, organic food is ridiculously expensive. 

but in terms of drinks, there's nothing better than water on a regular basis and it's pretty cheap if you buy it in bulk.

esplanade says:
03/11/10 12:52PM


You can eat healthy on a budget. I believe the poor are less well informed about nutrition, in part due to lower overall education, having too many kids etc, and in some cases because they are lazy.
Spitfire15 says:
03/11/10 01:03PM
Brita
rocky2278 says:
03/11/10 01:12PM

I 100% respectfully disagree with you on this one.  Just some examples of healthy foods on sale at the local market.   3 lb bag of chicken breasts $4.99 at least once a month.  You can always find chicken thighs, chicken quarters, or drumsticks under $1.50 a lb, fresh pork under $2.00 a pound and Hamburger under $2.00 a pound.  Five pound bag of potatos under $2 at Aldi.  Fresh or frozen veggies are not that expensive. 

My point is that these people could be making healthier options if they chose to do so.  Frozen pizzas, and dinners are way more conveneint and they taste real good to kids but sometimes a parent needs to be a parent and cook a dinner.  

JimRockford says:
03/11/10 01:22PM
Just tax the hell out of Marijuana.....ooops i forgot its not legal....yet...
seakev1 says:
03/11/10 05:02PM

Thats funny...pretty cheap if you buy it in bulk......how about just flip the fawcet on......its even cheaper.

oh and forget the tax thing..."Sin Tax" has been around for 200 years...remember the TEA thing in the harbor........Taxes just cause people heartburn and bad feelings against each other. sometimes little wars break out.

ClubDirt says:
03/11/10 05:08PM
yeah,seakev but there are many palces in this country where you really don't want to be drinking the tap water.  supposedly it's fine in most places, but pretty bad in others.
mmac66 says:
03/11/10 05:54PM

I drink a lot of soda.........I know it isn't good for me but it's really my only vice. I'm also not a fat ass, I've run multiple marathons and I am in very good shape. I'm also 43 years old, so I do have to "work" to remain thin.

I am wholeheartedly against taxing soda. Not because I drink it either. I'd rather the government let me live my freaking life. Like several have said in here, where does it end.........candy, chips, fried chicken as opposed to grilled chicken? Also, will I start getting tax credits for exercising? Maybe I can get them on a per mile run basis.......if I thought for even one millisecond that the government cared more about my health than my pocketbook my position might change.......but that isn't the case. Everything is done in the "interest of public health and safety"......it's like speeding tickets on deserted roads on the way to work at 7am where the speed limit is artificially low. It doesn't have anything to do with safety; it's about revenue. Hell, to be completely honest, if the fucking government just said it was about revenue, I wouldn't have as big a problem with this tax as saying they are concerned about our health and healthcare costs.........ugh.

 

And by the way, I completely support taxing religous organizations

misfit_aka says:
03/11/10 06:04PM
yeha tax religion...billions of fukin dollars a year sitting there
chump says:
03/11/10 06:47PM
The country does NOT need to raise money ... Washington needs to shrink government, spend less and undo the regulations that are strangling industry in this country or the country is on a sure course of financial disaster ............... less tax = more tax revenue, but that is hard for a Democrat to understand !!!
revengeissweet1 says:
03/11/10 07:56PM

Coming to Albany NY soon:

http://www.HealthierNYNow.org

wizardofroz says:
03/12/10 05:24AM

  Very well put, mmac. 

 

mmac66 says:
03/12/10 09:38AM

 

KOAJ says:
03/12/10 09:56AM


based on your location, you've seen first hand what government can do

Granholm
MyNameIsEarl says:
03/12/10 11:44AM

Raise money, f#(k,   we just print create or  computerize more of it these days..........

we are circling the drain......try to tax that!

"Tyranny of the majority"...

esplanade says:
03/12/10 06:27PM
Let's cut to the chase and tax FAT. If you're unhealthy and have pre-existing conditions, you definitely should pay more than someone who is in shape. What's next, the young and healthy subsidize the life insurance of the old and sickly.

This is a disease, give us our country back.
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