MLBguru says:
Jeter should be put ahead most, if not all those guys.  I don't really like him but you can't argue stats and that Jeter plays in a day and age with the best players from all around the world.

 

Those were different times, not nearly as competitive, alot less parody.

qster says:
Lou Gehrig is the all-time greatest Yankee.

Took Jeter 500+ more AB to tie the record and Gehrig beats Jeter in the majority of other offensive categories.

jpero says:


Lowering the mound (most important and influential reason for modern day offensive explosion)
Smaller ballparks
Better technology and lighter bats
Expansion has led to a pool of worse pitchers who pitch more frequently. Just look at any bullpen and you can see jokesters of pitchers who actually pitch because every team needs a certain # of pitchers.


These have had more of an impact on offensive #s nowadays and are reasons the game was more difficult in the earlier-mid stages of the game.

ronniehan says:
Some of you are saying he wasnt the best on his team in any season. What exactly makes you the best on your team? Hes a career .314 hitter, so being in the #1 and #2 spots in the batting order for most of his career, he gets on for those " better players on the team " to drive him in....Without him, those players stats wouldnt be AS good.

GamzOver says:
Jeter has not dominated his era like the oldtime yankees dominated theirs. End of story.

CoFred says:
They were drunken white men

MLBguru says:

 

You're wrong....look at the percentage of white players in the league today.

There is WAY more talent in today's game.  Players are actual athletes minus a few big guys.  They are stronger, faster, smarter etc.  If Jeter hit against those pitchers he would destroy them.  If Babe Ruth and Gehrig faced Greinke they'd probably whif 10 times out of 10.

There was no real scouting, no real player development, etc. Now teams can choose from the whole world, and do it much easier.

To say the talent pool was greater back then is a joke.

jpero says:


He is one of the worst field shortstops to play day in and day out over the past decade. He is average and nothign more. He had a few season of being above average but for the most part he has been average-below average.

Since 2002 he has 1 season, this season, where he is rated above average. All the others are either average-slightly below average or well below average.

For instance this year. He is the 3rd best SS in the AL, fielding wise at an UZR/150= 5.6. He's had seasons as low as -16.7

jpero says:


Why do you keep avoiding the lowering of the mound?

As you say scouting reports, video, etc... That enables players today to be better. That does not make them better players.

Baseball is more mental than it is physical. The players back int eh day had better baseball IQ. There are an astronomic rate of stupid plays made these days that would have never been made in the 60s-80s because the players, although physically and athletically superior, do not have the same baseball IQ and understand the nuances of the game as well.

Also I am more talking about baseball post 1950 when Blacks were allowed to play.

jpero says:


Steriods + greenies >>>>> just greenies

jpero says:


Are you out of you mind... From the 50s-80s some of the best black and latinos were playing in the MLBs... you are making it sound like it was outlawed and there were no good ball players who werent white until the 90s and beyond.

MLBguru says:

 

The lowering of the mound is of no real importance.  How does that factor in to comparing Jeter and these guys?

Scouting is HUGE...how can you say that.  How else do these guys find the best players in the world?  Through scouting.  Being scouted does not make you better obviously, but it lets you be seen. 

To say they had a greater baseball IQ back then is silly.  The game is much faster, stronger and harder and you have to react much quicker in today's game.  If you watched as many games back then as you do now you would see there has always been great and dumb plays.

 

Jeter looks like a real athlete, some of those guys didn't.  As i said, if Jeter now played back then he would have crushed all of those guys numbers.

MLBguru says:

 

The 80's!?  What the hell are you talking about the 80's for?  Were talking Gehrig and Ruth here and few others.

Man the quality of black, latinos, etc is not what it should have been.

Those guys wouldn't be able to touch Greinke or Halladay.  Jeter would probably hit .500 against a pitcher from that era.

MLBguru says:
You will never see domination like that in any team sport like guys from the old days.

 

Nobody will ever put up Gretzky numbers. Nobody will ever dominate like those guys did again.

 

The reason is not because there aren't players more talented than those guys...it's because in this day and age and technology and fitness you have beasts all around the league now.

jpero says:


Pujols is dominating like players of the old day.

jpero says:


There are only a handful (15-25) who have 4-5 pitches they can effectively use and be called plus pitches. You are talking about less than 10% of the league's pitching and they are the best pitchers in the league.

How many legit #1 pitchers are tehre?
Or relievers?

Those are the ones you are referencing. If you have 4-5 plus pitches you are a #1 starter or shutdown closer. there are not many of those in teh game.

tuttleberry says:
I'm a Met fan from NJ, so (1) I do not care if Jeter is hailed as an all-time great player or not, and (2) I get to see him play games on television all the time. I've been a baseball fan since the early 80's, so I've watched Jeter his whole career up to this point.

 

I'm here to defend Jeter against the notion that he's a below average defensive shortstop. I don't know where that comes from. Here's how I rate him over the course of his whole career against other shortstops in MLB using my own set of categories:

 

Glove, or ability to field batted balls: GOOD

Throwing: velocity/strength or arm: AVERAGE

Throwing: accuracy/precision: GOOD

Range, ability to get to batted balls: AVERAGE

Double play at 2nd: turn or start: GOOD

Defensive instincts, decisions: GREAT

 

My scouting report of Jeter at SS goes like this: On tough plays: He's got a fixed set of techniques and throws he's used his whole career based on whether he's ranging towards 3rd, 2nd, or the mound. So, it comes down to can he get to the ball, make the play, and make the throw. He makes tough plays all the time. Spectacular plays? No, not really. I've rarely seen make a play where he has to execute an airborne dive. Jeter plays "smoothe". He doesn't blow the difficult play that should be made anyway. He's good going back on popups and he can execute a basket catch very well. He's good around 2nd when starting or turning a double play.

 

I would say that, for a good shortstop, he doesn't get to some balls you would like to see him get to, and on some that he does get to, he doesn't have the arm strength to throw out above-average runners sprinting to first base. But, there's a lot of shortstops like that. So, my overall grade for Jeter defensively is ABOVE AVERAGE, with a quick synopsis of my reasoning being that his steady play and instincts make up for average range and average arm strength/velocity.

 

I do recall him having one year where he made a lot of errors. Maybe 20+ that year, I don't know. I won't hold that against him for his whole career.

 

Osirus13 says:
The only thing i disagree with here is that you say hes having a turnaround season. He wasnt bad last year. .300 avg. People make it sound like he had some down years. .300, .322. .343 were his last 3 years. He was better defensively this year though

GamzOver says:


now if Pujols was a yankee......hmmmmmmm. maybe yes ?

no, i wouldn't even say him

Sparky10191 says:

I changed the DP one because Cano has made him better.

yankees2k6 says:
I am not going to say is going to be the all time best especially with the names you have listed.. but in the end he is going to have over 500 more hits than any of those players on that list among other categories that he will surpass like runs.  However he certainly deserves all the respect in the world with the turn around season he is having and that everybody has ruled him off about his batting and fielding now that he turned 35.  He is a warrior and the classiest player there is.

bloodhound19 says:
Jose Canseco is the reason for the offensive explosion not the lowering of the mound.

Numbers in the 70's and 80's were not that different then before the mound change...

As for Jeter... He belongs on that list. not sure its at the top or the bottom or somewhere in the middle.

Yes his hits have come in more at bats than Gehrig but also in fewer Games. Hes not gonna be the home run hitter that Ruth was because he weighs 180 pounds. Ruth ate that in Hot dogs. RBI totals are always gonna suffer when you spend your career in the 1 or 2 spots.... The only people your gonna drive in are the 7 8 and 9 hitters and lets face it. There is a reason those guys hit 7 8 and 9.

MLBguru says:

 

The ballparks are still small bud and I dont see guys dinging 70 anymore.  The watered down pitchers are still there and eye hand coordination is still the same.  What's missing....strength and power.

MLBguru says:

 

Well said

MLBguru says:
Pitchers today also have alot more variety pitches.

 

And there are tons of guys in the league now who throw 90+ and tons who have nasty curveballs.

 

Many have 4 or 5 pitches they can throw.

MLBguru says:
Name 10 solid pitchers that just pitch with command in today's game.

 

Almost all the good ones have variety, movement and heat.

elmatador says:
This is a generation obsessed with stats and numbers and power......Throw all the stats out..Yes Jeter doesnt have the homeruns, RBIs, so on and so forth that we have been accustomed to due to the steriod era.... But what he does have doesnt show up on paper, are the intangibles that he provides, his leadership, his class, and his ability to come through in the Clutch.. Give me Derek Jeter in a pressure situation over anyone.... Ask yourself one question if your son looked up to a ballplayer who would you hope it would be...  CONGRATS DJ your a steriodless Class act!!!!!

NiC_IcE says:
MlbGuru so even bother with these uneducated minds they keep naming people who played back when the talent was scarce thats why the only people you hear about is the Babe and Lou ect... now in day how many names can you say that play great baseball how many non Americans can you name matter of fact name 15 players from that time... cause now in day the pitcher are WAY better not just some drunk white guy who happens to pitch better than the rest of the team, look at the cards they have 3 pitchers that would be lights out if they where playing back then, we got pitcher throwning 95mph then gets relievd for another pitcher that throws 95mph then a closer that throws 95mph, back then there was 1 pitcher for the game and you tellin me that he threw 95mph the whole game, i don't think so thats where most of these greats got there numbers from, the late innings of games when the pitchers arm is tiring  not to take anything from them but i really dont think any of those guy would even make a team in this era