theveech's Blog

Canes v. Noles, the full breakdown

By theveech | View all Posts
Posted Tuesday, September 01, 2009 01:57 PM   17 comments
I see lots of trash-talking already on different threads, so lets just break this one down position by position:
 
QB Edge: Push
 
Phil Steele has FSU's Ponder ranked as the 46th best qb in America.  Hmmm....three backup qbs just transferred from Miami and all told the media they knew they would get "no playing time" for the next 3 years because of Jacory Harris' skills.  I will call this a push, call it what you want, but I rewatched entire game from last year and Ponder self-destructed in the 2nd half, throwing 2 pick 6's.  Calling this a draw is tough but I'll do it.
 
RB Edge: Miami
 
The cupboard is bare for FSU here, Phil Steele has Miami ranked as the 20th best RB group in the country.  Remember the team who has rushed for more yards has won 19 of the last 21 matchups, so this category is VERY relevant.  FSU loses Antone Smith, Miami loses nobody.
 
OLINE Edge: FSU
 
FSU is ranked 7th in the country, Miami ranks 26th.  This is FSU's best strength, definitely have the horses in the trenches, but the qb sneak wont work this year against the Canes.  Thats how the Noles won last year, I challenge anyone to dispute that.  Still Ponder should have time to throw.
 
WR Edge: Miami
 
Miami WR's rank 19th in the country, FSU did not make the list.  Again another example of the top guns graduating (lost top rusher and 2 receivers from last year, Smith, Carr, and Parker).  Miami has young talent here, and the edge.
 
DLINE Edge: Miami
 
Miami ranks #3 in the country, FSU ranks #15.  Indeed it was Miami's DLINE who kept them in the game last year, as the Miami offense was anemic at best with Marve at the helm.  If Miami DLINE shuts down the FSU running game, Miami wins.
 
LBS Edge: Push
 
Miami ranks 15, FSU ranks 20.   Miami's Sean Spence is the difference maker here, he is the best player on the roster for Miami.  Calling this is a push is tough because Miami also returns Colin McCarthy from injury (redshirt last year) and FSU loses top two tacklers on the team from this core.
 
DBS Edge: Push
 
FSU ranks 25, Miami ranks 28.  This game will come down to the qb play, not the DB play.
 
ST Edge:  Miami BIG
 
Miami ranks 4 in the country, FSU did not make the top 33.  Anyone who has EVER IN THEIR LIFE watched one of these games has to take this very seriously.  Miami has Groza List kicker Matt Bosher, could come down to that.
 
Intangibles Edge: FSU
 
They outplayed Miami last year, and are at home.  Miami is young and has proven nothing, Shannon game day coaching is highly questionable, whereas Bobby has solid guys in place.  I think FSU will be playing this game not to lose, ie conservative, so Miami will have to be the aggressors here.  Of course when FSU got conservative in the 2nd half last year, they fell apart.
 
Overall, more than 30 inches of rain fell during the game last year.  I was there, it was a downpour like I have never seen at any game in 25 years.  FSU went up big, then Miami stormed back and fell short in the very end. 
 
FSU has a nasty OLINE, but no superstar has emerged yet at RB.  So the game really falls into the hands of Christian Ponder.  I suppose Nole fans will tell you Ponder is due for a breakout year after throwing 14 tds and 13 picks last year, but I dont see much talent in this guy. 
 
The Miami DLINE, and Sean Spence, will be creating havoc in the backfield because FSU wont be able to run the ball.  I see coverage sacks, and I see further problems on FSU special teams.
 
The Canes are developing a core of guys from Miami Northwestern High School, including Sean Spence and Jacory Harris (and 8 other relevant players).  Its hard to put a number or value on kids who grew up together and who are still playing together in an attempt to bring Miami back to prominence. 
 
When it comes to playing a side, I have to take the 5.5 points on the boys from Northwestern High, who are trying to prove everyone wrong in typical Canes fashion. 
 
Besides winning one more for Bobby, what is FSU building?  Maybe a Nole fan can enlighten me here....
17 comments
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theveech says:
09/01/09 02:30PM
ESPN college football analyst Kirk Herbstreit is picking the Miami Hurricanes to beat the Florida State Seminoles in Tallahassee on Monday night despite UM being a 5 1/2-point underdog.

"I think Miami will go up there and win," Herbstreit told WQAM (560-AM) on Tuesday. "I just think with Jacory Harris and the skill players around him being a year older . . . I think they understand the urgency with their first four games. I think they know that if they lose this first one, this thing could go in a bad direction."

Herbstreit was referring to Miami's difficult stretch to the start the season with games at FSU (Sept. 7), vs. Georgia Tech (Sept. 17), at Virginia Tech (Sept. 26) and vs. Oklahoma (Oct. 3).

"It's a must-win for both teams, but realistically Miami going 2-2 in its first four games would be a blessing -- 1-3 or 0-4 and the season is done," he said.

Herbstreit also said the 18th-ranked Seminoles are overrated.

"A lot of people are excited about FSU . . . I need to see that to believe it," he said. "I don't know what it is that they're overly excited about outside of Christian Ponder. I don't see a lot of skill. I don't see a lot of proven playmakers at wide receiver. I think the offensive line probably will become a strength. The defense is missing a lot of playmakers. I know they won nine games last year, but I don't think they're going to win nine games [this season]."

He did, however, praise quarterback Christian Ponder.

"Overall, he seems to have an understanding of what they're doing, and he has enough athletic ability to get out of some trouble. So, I like him. But what's been missing from Florida State the last five or six years is playmakers at wide receiver, dominant defensive ends and corners who can cover. Going into this season, I don't see a ton of difference-makers."

Herbstreit also said the unranked Hurricanes should improve from their 7-5 season a year ago.

"Jacory Harris is impressive," he aaid. "He's more than capable of being an outstanding quarterback. He's got a year under his belt that will allow him to make better decisions. He also has a lot of good, skill players around him."

He also thinks Miami's younger players will be better prepared.

"With (coach) Randy Shannon now in his third year, he's got a lot of redshirt freshmen and sophomores and true freshmen, and a lot players he feels very confident in as far as their athletic ability," he said. "Now some of those guys have some game experience. So you can't continue to say they're so young. Yeah, they're young. But a lot of these guys have played a lot of football now, which will help them for a game like the one against Florida State."
THEMUGG says:
09/01/09 02:46PM
Nice work veech.............you've got me interested in this game now.............glad it's on Monday.
NatureBoy11 says:
09/01/09 02:57PM
herbstreit's picks are always wrong....
rhoffma says:
09/01/09 03:13PM
Nice write up veech, FSU may be great this year, but the polls continually boost them each year due to Bowden.  I think it will be a great home, and the points represent too much value, imho.  BOL
tebowwearsjorts says:
09/01/09 03:14PM
The Miami DLINE, and Sean Spence, will be creating havoc in the backfield because FSU wont be able to run the ball. 

 

The same front 7 that gave up 315 yards on the ground last year. 

 

 

 

BBallday10 says:
09/01/09 03:23PM
I think there are a lot of ? marks on both sides.  That said, I took Miami +6 because, among other things, these two teams always play close, the dog is 8-1-1 L10 ATS and has won outright in those 8 ATS W's  including the last 4.




bracks says:
09/01/09 03:25PM
I already got on this game when it came out at +6.5. I could not believe people wanted to give that many in this rivalry. I am not high on the Convicts, but its not like the CrimiNoles are SO great. I think there is value in ML, but I am already making a couple of SU dog wins, so I will eb happy with a small lose or SU win by Canes.
theveech says:
09/01/09 03:48PM
mugg---its fun to watch every year, so lets see which program is headed in the right direction, dont think its FSU   

 

tebow---yes the Miami run defense sucked ass last year.  But, the whole line is back, all the linebackers are back, cant really get worse and that goddamn Ponder qb sneak accounted for over 1000 yards of rushing.  They also had Antone Smith.  Who's gonna gas the Canes this year?

 

bball--agreed no matter which team you are a fan of, how can you not take the points in this series?

 

bracks---if it comes down to a fg, gotta love the Canes kicker.

 

 

theveech says:
09/01/09 03:52PM
sorry meant 100 yards rushing that game for Ponder.  Honestly I have never seen so much rain in my life and I lived through Hurricane Andrew in 1992, its hard to put much stock in anything from last year's game.
mrusso says:
09/01/09 03:58PM
Good info, always looking at the dog in this series, thanks and good luck!!!
theveech says:
09/01/09 04:00PM

Spence: "We're ready to stop the run"

Finding the University of Miami's weakness last season was easy for opponents. It was the Hurricanes' run defense. The collective numbers were about as ugly as it gets for a program that has always prided itself in stuffing the run.

How ugly was the Canes run defense in 2008? UM allowed 1,974 yards on the ground -- a 151.85-yard average that ranked worst in the ACC and 75th in the country. It's an amazing drop off when you consider in 2006 UM's run defense allowed just 882 yards the entire season -- tied for fourth fewest in the NCAA and tops in the ACC. That season just so happened to be the last year Randy Shannon was defensive coordinator.

The Canes have been getting progressively worse at stopping the run with a different guy calling the shots on defense. In 2007, UM ranked 40th against the run (133.75 ypg) and eighth in the ACC under Tim Walton. Bill Young obviously didn't do any better last year.

UM didn't just give up more yards collectively, they were often gashed by long runs and big plays. N.C. State and California each ran for more than 200 yards on UM in the final two games of the season. 

But nobody had more success against the Canes running the football than UM's first two opponents this year -- Florida State and Georgia Tech. The Seminoles, behind scrambling quarterback Christian Ponder and running back Antone Smith, ran for 281 yards and had 14 runs of 10 or more yards against UM. Georgia Tech carved up the Canes for 472 yards and 13 runs of 10 or more yards.

So what makes linebacker Sean Spence feel like the Canes will not get pushed around in 2009?

"We're all bigger, heavier, stronger," Spence told me two weeks ago. "We're not little freshmen anymore."

Size definitely matters when it comes to college football. And if you watched the Hurricanes last season on defense you know it was more than just the size of the depth chart and injuries that held UM back. Sure, Spence earned ACC Defensive Rookie of The Year honors. But he played most of the season right at or under under 200 pounds. For all of the great plays he made as the team's third-leading tackler and leader in tackles for loss, he admits he often got bounced around by bigger linemen and was out of position to make plays.

"Last year, I was more like a ping pong. I'd bounce off a guy, bounce off another and then make a play," said Spence, who came to UM weighing 193 pounds. "Now, I'm taking on blocks, breaking through the blocks, making tackles."

Spence is now 212 pounds. His linebacker mates are bigger too. Ramon Buchanon, who moved over from safety where he was weighing 200, is now 220 and backing up Spence on the strongside. Jordan Futch, considered UM's first linebacker off the bench, came to UM weighing 205 pounds. He's now up to 230.

"We were probably the smallest linebacker group in the nation last year," Futch said. "We had no depth because guys were hurt and we had no size. Now, we're knocking heads off literally. I feel like it's helped me a lot. I know its helped Sean a lot. Sean was always a big hitter. But he's filling holes. Buchanon lights people up. When you see that weight and the speed we have, it's awesome. We're going to be much better stopping the run than we did last year."

The return of Colin McCarthy from a season-ending shoulder injury is another reason Spence is excited. McCarthy, the projected starter on the weakside, has made a huge difference just in practice according to Spence.

"Colin is a great player, vocal leader," Spence said. "He's another playmaker. He'll make interceptions, pick up fumbles. He's a great open field tackler. I watch him a lot and where he fits up on guys. We missed him bad."

While the Canes have sustained a few injuries to its defensive line this fall (Adewale Ojomo, Eric Moncur, Dyron Dye), Spence said he sees improvement in the guys in front of him. Defensive tackle Marcus Forston and Micanor Regis, both freshmen last season, have been praised repeatedly throughout camp by Shannon. A healthy Allen Bailey in the middle has also made a difference according to Jason Fox.

"Our d-line got a lot better," Spence said. "Guys are sitting in the right gap, wrapping up, anticipating and reading assignments. We're not going backward anymore.

"Last year, guys weren't really buying into what we did last year. Guys are all on one page now. We're ready to stop the run."

The first test is Monday.

Parlaid says:
09/01/09 05:30PM
FINALLY an intelligent post on this game......Too many people backing an overrated, OK FSU team at best in a rivalry game being played in the spotlight...

Taking MIAMI ML & MIAMI + 6.6

Thank you guys for pushing this line up for me !

Trooper64 says:
09/02/09 03:40PM
Veech-I think you meant 3 inches of rain....which is still an unbelievable amount! We get four in Vegas in a year!

Lean to Miami in this game, but think this game might be high scoring.....not so much because of the Offenses, just believe there will be numerous mistakes and big plays on both sides....Good luck all

theveech says:
09/03/09 09:20AM

University of Miami betting on the Bulls

By GREG COTE
gcote@MiamiHerald.com

 

AL DIAZ / MIAMI HERALD STAFF

This is the University of Miami football team media day on July 1, 2008 on campus. UM freshman who played on the Northwestern High School National Championship team pose for pictures during media day. Left to right front row are, Sean Spence, Kendall Thompkins, Jacory Harris, Marcus Forston, Aldarius Johnson. Back row are Ben Jones, Tommy Streeter.

 

The respected website Scout.com put out its annual list of the 200 best players in college football recently, and University of Miami fans might feel fortunate if they missed it. With apologies here for providing the indigestion, I would note that the Hurricanes nearly were shut out entirely.

SLIDING AWAY

The indignity! UM used to be the national seat of stars, the darling of the NFL Draft's first round, the consistently flowing pipeline from Saturdays to Sundays.

Now, in 2009, there is a solitary Cane, running back Graig Cooper, checking in 173rd. (And we would intend nothing against Cooper personally to mention that most fans of The U are not yet rushing to include him among Edgerrin James and Clinton Portis, et al, in the pantheon of the school's greatest at the position.)

No. 173. Can you imagine?

The Florida Gators had five guys just in the national top 63, led by overall No. 1 Tim Tebow. The upstart South Florida Bulls had two players ranked higher than Miami (much), and three overall. FAU quarterback Rusty Smith was ranked No. 89. Florida State had two guys higher than the lone Cane.

And, for the ultimate gut-punch: Even cross-town kid brother FIU had a player, young receiver/return man T.Y. Hilton, ranked higher than UM's top guy.

This is a reminder that the best coaching in college football is not done on sidelines on Saturdays. It is done in living rooms when the cameras aren't on.

Recruiting = talent = UM's return to prominence. That, or bust. That, or a continuation of the decline.

I get a kick out of so

many Hurricanes fans railing about Randy Shannon's coaching decisions during games, or the way he carries himself in news conferences, or his clock management, etc.

Make no mistake, Shannon, beginning his third season as coach, will succeed or fail here ultimately by his work in living rooms, or when he has recruits' moms and dads in his plush office, the one with the small New Age waterfall trickling serenely.

Which brings us to the Bull Market.

UM's fortunes, and Shannon's job, depend on which way it goes from here.

The bunch of Miami Northwestern High players he convinced in 2008 to stay in town -- led by quarterback Jacory Harris -- are the saddle on which a program's and a coach's fortunes ride. The nucleus of Bulls also includes linebacker Sean Spence, defensive tackle Marcus Forsten and receiver Aldarius Johnson, but make no mistake Harris is the hub, the essential impetus.

The Hurricanes need a star, a national focal point. ``UM is back'' needs a face.

It is time.

The young men who forged the Hurricanes' most recent of five national championships, in 2001, will soon be marking that milestone's 10th anniversary. In college football, that's a couple of generations ago.

It is time.

The U's 14-year streak of NFL first-round draft picks ended this past April, after barely surviving the previous three years. Miami hasn't had a top-10 pick since cornerback Antrelle Rolle in 2005.

It is time.

No Cane has won a major national individual honor since Kellen Winslow's Mackey Award (top tight end) in 2003, or been a recognized All-American since '05.

It is time.

Somebody, and Harris is only the most obvious and out-front candidate, must step forward and become UM's next big-time, headline-making, earth-quaking, national star.

Somebody who can stand shoulder to shoulder with the Jim Kellys and Michael Irvins and Ray Lewises not just because they shared the same uniform but because they shared the same defining, extraordinary skills.

The gradual decline in overall talent was something Shannon inherited, but, three years in, he still must prove he has overcome that and steered the franchise right.

Shannon is a polarizing figure in South Florida sports, and certainly among Canes fans. I hear it, see it in blog comments, read it in e-mails.

I used to wonder if it might have to do with race.

I have come to think it has more to do with the race against time. UM fans are tired of waiting. Five national titles bunched inside two decades make a fandom hungry -- and impatient. Watching the once-nemesis Florida Gators rise to preening glory surely doesn't help.

Miami must stop relying on its heritage, its past accomplishments and ``family'' and create new lines on the résumé - in much the same way the Dolphins must get past the old familiar crutch of Don Shula/Perfect Season/Dan Marino and start putting some fresh, wet ink to the franchise history book.

It is a wonderful thing, UM's tradition of former Canes returning to work out at the school and nurture their heirs. It is what 1983 championship coach Howard Schnellenberger meant this month when he referred to the bloodline as ``the brotherhood of players.'' And when he referred to the coaches who succeeded him as ``smart enough to not screw it up, to not mess with the recipe.''

The thing is, in college football all it takes is a few bad or underperforming recruiting classes in a row to leave a once-proud program with nothing much to grasp but the past.

Frank Gore's younger brother just snubbed the Cane bloodline to go with the Gators. Why? Because he wants a ticket to the NFL, and the UM pipeline narrowed and got rusty fast, and Kid Gore saw what UF did for Percy Harvin and put his chips on that.

Loyalty only stretches so far.

Flourishing major programs don't so much recruit players as see star prospects recruiting them. Miami once enjoyed such a situation but now must work for its gold by cajoling talent.

Which brings us back to the Bull Market, and the 2008 Northwestern class fronted by Harris.

Shannon is betting UM's return to prominence, and his own career, on the recruiting gamble embodied by this kid -- the idea that a nucleus that went 30-0 in high school and won everything could do it at the next level in the same city.

The coach thinks Harris is all that.

The coach thinking Harris is all that was so obvious that it led 2008 starter Robert Marve to tuck his tail between his legs in defeat and transfer.

Nationally, though, the same disrespect -- or is it disregard? -- that had no Cane ranked higher than 173rd among the best players has Harris nowhere in a CollegeFootballNews.com list of 30 young QBs to keep an eye on.

OFTEN OVERLOOKED

The guy who will replace Tebow in Gainesville, John Brantley, is No. 5. E.J. Manuel of FSU is 11th. One B.J. Daniels of South Florida is 30th.

Harris? You'll find him, for now, nowhere but in the sweetest dreams of Shannon and Canes fans.

The sophomore might have been kidding when he said on a local radio show that he looks forward to wearing a pink suit to pick up his Heisman Trophy.

Star-starved UM prays he was serious about the Heisman, if not the suit.

No kidding.

Jim_Tressel says:
09/03/09 09:38AM
great stuff here veech, seem to be very honest with your opinion. 
theveech says:
09/04/09 03:29PM
jimtress---that avatar is funny!

 

Line has climbed to +6.5, which is clear REVERSE LINE MOVEMENT.  People who know what that is, I will let you decide about this game.

theveech says:
09/08/09 02:33PM
congrats to canes backers, that was a nail biter!!!
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