vanzack's Blog

MLB primer - what kind of MLB bettor should you be?

By vanzack | View all Posts
Posted Sunday, April 05, 2009 12:36 AM   269 comments
As the MLB season is upon us, it might be time to think about your strategy for betting bases.  There are 2 main schools of thought for handicapping, handicapping a winner - or handicapping a line.
 
From my perspective, the vast majority of MLB bettors handicap a winner.  They come up with reasons to bet a team and while the line comes in to their thought process, they are looking for a winner.  This leads to betting lots of favorites, and often paying too high of a price for teams.  Chasing is not only for bet amounts - a lot of people chase a line too - thinking "if its a winner at -150 it is a winner at -160 so Im still betting it".  In my opinion, this is a recipe for longterm MLB disaster.
 
The second way to bet baseball is to handicap a line, and bet on the side that gives you the most value in relation to your line.  When you come up with a line, you are not coming up with the line you think will be closest to the betting line - you are coming up with a line that you think is an accurate reflection of results.  If those 2 teams played 100 times, the line you handicap would break a bettor even if they took one side all of those times.
 
Using this method, you could end up on either side of any game on any day based upon what the line is, regardless of whether you think they will win that day or not.  In MLB you are often betting on teams you think have a better chance of losing that day than winning, but the line is the great equalizer.  Lots of guys go sub .500 in MLB and win lots of money.
 
Baseball, more than any other sport, is a longterm venture.  So overpaying even 3 or 4 cents will kill you longterm - its just like paying a tax.  Do yourself a favor and get numerous outs - and always always always bet the best line you can - and make sure you have reduced juice books in that mix.  Dont make the mistake of saying "5 cents is no big deal" - it is a big deal - every penny is a big deal on lines. 
 
The average bettor would be better off line shopping and betting the best available line than increasing his win percentage by 3%.  For some reason, people like to put all of their time in to handicapping and then pay too much for the team they bet. 
 
Remember - the number one determinant of longterm sportsbetting success is how often you beat the closing line and by how much.
 
So the next time you read someones writeup and it is loaded with comments about how they think a pitcher will come to play, or how a team is motivated, or anything of the sort - remember one thing - all of that doesnt matter if you are paying too much for that team - and if that line is 10 cents too much you should be playing the other side.
 
In my opinion, the only way to make money at MLB longterm is to handicap the line by predicting results, and betting whichever side is value in relation to that number.  This takes a totally unemotional approach, as you cant "fall in love" with any team on any day, but instead you will be falling in love with your bankroll as you profit on the marathon that is MLB.
 
GL all
 
269 comments
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Coverdatspred says:
04/05/09 12:41AM
Well said Van  

MLB = value betting
123 says:
04/05/09 01:22AM
Bottom line is, pick winners. Value doesn't mean squat if it doesn't win. Plus, MLB was a pay juice season in 08 if i can recall.
Supply_N_Demand says:
04/05/09 01:29AM

Both make good points because Van is right...doesnt matter how good a pitcher is if the line is too high...but also value doesnt do you any good unless you win...I'm ready for the bases...here is for a successful year!

GWarner27 says:
04/05/09 01:35AM


please explain a "pay juice season." As in each team was in the red for the year for the money? I doubt this so please teach me.

...the problem with this post, van, is that i have no idea how to handicap an accurate line. This is why I do totals and try to ONLY hit dogs.

always love to read what you say
andarmac99 says:
04/05/09 01:42AM
i-fuck-on-the-f says:
04/05/09 01:47AM
Are you still going to be using matchbook, Van?

 

If not, where?

 

Good luck this season.

 

MDnightFlight says:
04/05/09 04:59AM
Good stuff VZ
123 says:
04/05/09 06:19AM

Has it help in anyway?

Bluefin says:
04/05/09 07:34AM
Van How about a thread on how to handicap an accurate line, everyone always talks about their line but no one ever devulges even the basics of how they come up with their number and if one pays only attention to the number  won't you fall into ever trap line or don't you believe they exist?
chip7222 says:
04/05/09 08:08AM
This will be my first season betting on baseball, other than the series. I can tell it is already going to be a painful lesson. If I am taking you correctly then you try to avoid the big favs. This will def be a huge change as with BB and FB there is a standard 10%. I understand your point on taking the lowest possible juice, but I use a local as I have never wanted the trouble of fighting the internet books. I have to look at putting $$$ on several sites as I have read on this forum that a large % of you guys bet bases and of course my book doesnt take them.

 

BOL this year.

Salt72 says:
04/05/09 08:59AM
Nice post.  But this is very hard for your average bettor to do, because they don't know how to come up with their own lines (like a couple other posters have already mentioned).  I fall into that group, too.

So...you got some tips on how to come up with your own line?  You've been around the block a few times, so hopefully you can give us a few pointers.
1pk-only says:
04/05/09 09:46AM
stay away from baseball, i been loosing 15k a year.................
vanzack says:
04/05/09 11:40AM
One thing I can see is misunderstood already:

 

I am not advocating betting underdogs, and I am not advocating betting favorites.  Either one is just as likely to have value.

 

If NYY are playing Toronto, and you have the line at -142, and the real line comes out at -158 and you can get Toronto at +156, you take Toronto.


But if that line is NYY -128, you take NYY.

 

In the end, you are not betting more underdogs than favorites, you are betting value based on a predetermined threshold that you set for a difference to your line.

 

GameHunter says:
04/05/09 11:41AM


Great stuff Vanzack! Despite the Hulk Hogan-Andre the Giant relationship Vanzack and I share, I have much respect for him and we are both on the same page in most aspects of sports betting.

Bluefin: I wanted to chime in as your question also has been asked of me often. While there is no set formula for calculating value, I find that in my research and analysis in a game, if I can come up with many small hidden factors (or at least non-public perception factors) that point more favorably than we'd think towards one side, then it means you will see value in that side against the line. Not sure if that helps but look for things that the average bettor may not see on the surface and you can find value without knowing exactly how to calculate what the line should be.

For
vanzack says:
04/05/09 11:44AM

Matchbook is still the best single option out there for bettting MLB, even with their new commission structure.

They have taken out the reasonable ability to sell back bets, so this season I will be holding a lot more of my original wagers and not selling them.

BTW - Dont know if you saw - but they announced today .6% commission on MLB accepts, and .1% rebate on offers.

vanzack says:
04/05/09 11:46AM

GH - I heard you talking about this same subject on that radio show - which btw I think you did a great job on.

If anyone wants someone to tail during MLB - GH is the best documented MLB poster at covers for the last several years - no arguments. 

Im going to attempt to give a short primer on coming up with lines....

KOAJ says:
04/05/09 11:48AM

Im going to attempt to give a short primer on coming up with lines....

----------

ill see what i can do to get a few of these info threads stickied in the mlb forum

JMatthew says:
04/05/09 11:53AM
Great write up! 
vanzack says:
04/05/09 11:59AM

This can be as simple as looking at tomorrows games, and using gut to come up with lines, or as complicated as coming up with statistical algorithms that produce a line.  There is no right or wrong way to get there - but it should be judged against results for accuracy. 

Personally, I use a combination of gut and stats.  I have a fairly simple statistical model to come up with a percentage of a given game.  I also use "gut" to come up with a line for every game - literally spending about 15 minutes total going game by game and spending a minute or two on each and coming up with a line.

I then take my statistical percentage and convert that to a line, and then combine my statistical line with my gut line.

Now that I have a line, I compare it to the real line.  If I am 7 -15 cents away from the real line, I bet 1 unit.  16-25 cents away from the real line, I bet 2 units.  More than 25 cents away and I thoroughly re-evaluate my line to see if there are errors, and then bet 2 units if it is still a play.

And it is very important to look backwards at results.  Tweak your formulas and your gut based on results.  As simple as it sounds - I think this is the critical flaw of most gamblers - once a game is over they move on and dont learn anything.  Compare how close your line is to the real results - and come up with some kind of analysis that will help tweak your process.

GameHunter says:
04/05/09 12:04PM
Thanks Van!

Looking forward to helping each other this season.
vanzack says:
04/05/09 12:07PM

FYI - this is how percentages break in to lines:

Line   Favorite   Dog
300     75%      25%
280     74%      26%
240     71%      29%
220     69%      31%
210     68%      32%
200     67%      33%
195     66%       34%
190     66%      34%
185     65%      35%
180     64%      36%
175     64%      36%
170     63%      37%
165     62%      38%
160     62%      38%
155     61%      39%
150     60%      40%
145     59%      41%
140     58%      42%
135     57%      43%
130     57%      43%
125     56%      44%
120     55%      45%
115     53%      47%
110     52%      48%
105     51%      49%
100     50%      50%

Everyone should memorize that table.

GameHunter says:
04/05/09 12:08PM
Van

FYI, Matchbook's new baseball policy:


Baseball rates for 2009 will be as follows: Monyelines and Runlines:

0.6% accept side; -0.1% offer side (rebate). Totals: 0.8% accept side;

-0.2% offer side (rebate). Rates will be reviewed at the end of April

to ensure they are promoting liquidity for each market type.

powerade says:
04/05/09 12:10PM
SimiRob says:
04/05/09 12:11PM
well said....
SimiRob says:
04/05/09 12:11PM
well said  
vanzack says:
04/05/09 12:14PM

I saw that.  Really is great for those who like to take a side and stay with it.  Cant beat 1 cent lines with max .8% commission.

The one complaint I have with MB right now is that they dont have a report that shows if your wager is an offer or and acceptance.  In other words, you dont know what commission you are paying until the end.  It gets confusing when you have multiple games and dont remember, you should be able to look and see if it is an offer or not.

Like yesterday, I was just messing around with college hoops - and I put in what I thought was an offer on a new price.  In a split second it was taken, and I wasnt sure if I accepted someones offer that had gotten there a split second before mine, or if the reverse was true - and I had to wait until the end to find out SOME of it was an offer and some an acceptance.

MB needs this as part of their standard reports on wagers.

doryj says:
04/05/09 12:46PM
Great stuff, Van.  I sent a request to Mbook for exactly what you just complained about - I figure they can tweak their existing software that shows profit/loss potential net of fees.  It gets even more confusing for in-game trading (and harder to tell if you accepted or offered).

I used to do a lot of scalping of in-game stuff the way you do pre-game - less profitable for both of us now.  A lot more buy and hold (and some increased volatility now). 

To a good season. 
vanzack says:
04/05/09 12:53PM

I did the same. 

GL this season.

girard says:
04/05/09 12:55PM

Vanzack,

Excellent stuff as always my friend.  Best of luck this year on the bases.

vanzack says:
04/05/09 12:55PM
BTW - go read a random selection of threads in the MLB forum with picks.

 

9 out of 10 say nothing about the line.  They talk about everything but the line.  They try to sell why a team will win but mention nothing about the price.

 

Charmin might be the best toilet paper in the world, but would you pay $10 bucks a roll?  $100 bucks a roll?  There has to be a price point where the other alternatives look better.  Unfortunately, most people on covers probably dont even use toilet paper, so this metaphor falls on deaf ears.

 

vanzack says:
04/05/09 12:56PM

You too ME.  Rip them up.

vanzack says:
04/05/09 02:49PM

Do youself a favor and dont call betus.

Start with Matchbook.

vanzack says:
06/28/09 08:54AM
Bump for all of the geniuses in the dodgers / mariners thread last night.
vanzack says:
06/28/09 09:20AM

I realize this - but at the same time feel a masochistic need to try and persuade them and have the discussion.

Most wont care or ever learn, but some will.

Its all good - thx for the compliments.

vanzack says:
06/28/09 06:10PM

But here is the difference:

The books are handicapping a line based on BETTING PATTERNS, you are handicapping a line based on RESULTS.

Read that again.  Think about it.  Big difference.

The books put out a line that gets 50% of the action on each side.  That doesnt necessarily mean that that line will be aligned with results, it just means that line will be aligned with betting patterns.  You have the ability to handicap results, and beat that line over the longrun.

If you had a bookie in South Bend Indiana, he might shade Notre Dame several points each week.  By handicapping results, you will be getting several points extra each week by betting the opponent, and therefore will be profitable longterm.

In MLB it is the same thing.  Every day, there are lines that are off that you should attempt to get the value on. If you can - that is the way to win longterm at MLB.

GL

vanzack says:
06/28/09 06:37PM

Then those people shouldnt be gambling.

In order to be a pilot, you have to have training, skill, and mental strength. I wouldnt give advice on a quick way for someone to fly a plane if that person didnt have what it took.

Im not willing to tell people to go ahead and gamble with a method that wont work, but is easy to use.  Cant do it.

The only way to win is to perfect what I am talking about.  If you are doing anything else, you are on a path to losing - you are much better off losing while spending your time at least learning how to perfect the method - because one day you will be winning.

vanzack says:
06/28/09 06:41PM

There is nothing to learn from me.

We could all learn from you.

Pick of the day.  Pick of the week.  Keep feeding us winners.  Thats what counts in sportsbetting.  Who cares about value.  Who cares about money management.  Who cares about math.  Who cares about statistics.  Who cares about edges and expected value.  Give me a pick.  Who is going to win tonight.  I need a parlay.  Give me a teaser.  I need to win on sunday night.

Keep it up pal.  I have been here 8 years, will be here 40 more.  The proof is in the results.  I have been preaching the same sermon for 8 years - do you think Im losing every year?  Please.  You know better.  But keep up with the desperate quest for covers approval - Im sure the pick of the day crowd will appreciate you much more than me - there is no reason to insult me - we have a different audience.  Yours is the lowbrow loser, and mine is the lowbrow loser who wants to change things and win.

Good luck with that.

vanzack says:
06/28/09 07:52PM

Why dont you dopes get together and share an apartment in vegas?

Or twitter each other with your thoughts on gambling!!  It would be gangbusters. 

Gaps and vegasmax of covers.  Taking the world by storm.  Look out sportsbooks.

vanzack says:
06/28/09 08:03PM

1.  I make a statistical line.

2.  I make a "gut feel" line.

3.  I merge the two together using a percentage that changes over the course of a season.

I realize it is easy to laugh at things you dont understand.  Im sure people say to astonomers all the time "you know black holes exist how??"

It is frustrating to explain things to people who dont have the capacity to understand.  You are like a caveman looking up at the stars - you dont have the capacity to understand - you dont have the math or the statistics background to understand even basic longterm profitability models.

If you take issue with my method than tell me exactly what you take issue with.  Its easy to crack one liners - but if you want to be taken seriously, tell me what it is you have a problem with - or where I go wrong in my method - or why nobody can learn anything from a jackass like me.  I will be willing to respond once you show that you even have the slightest idea of a grasp of the subject.

Or, go ahead and call me a doofus and put a rolling laughing emoticon.  Great.  Another covers moron makes the list.  One of about a million.

vanzack says:
06/28/09 08:19PM

I dont know what a "pro capper" is, but if that means I make my living gambling - then yest I am a pro capper.

That being said, I use a ton of stats to come up with a my statistical line.  It started out with a few stats in a spreadsheet, and has been tweaked and is still tweaked almost weekly for the last 10 years.  It is a multilayered spreadsheet that takes about 20 hitting stats and 10 pitching stats, along with team stats.  How the fuck am I going to explain that - and why would I want to?  You wouldnt even understand it.  Im going to explain regressional statistical variances to a covers crowd?  Please.

As for results, I put my money up every day.  Thats how I do my talking.  I dont post picks or lines or anything of the sort here for a number of reasons - the biggest being that it doesnt appeal to me - I dont have a need to be loved at covers for the pick of the day - and it does nothing positive for me - so I dont do it.

But all of that is not the point anyway.

It makes no difference if my lines suck balls every day.  It makes no difference if I cant make a line to save my life.  The point of this thread is not how good I make lines - which is why there is a deliberate LACK of discussion on HOW to make a line - the point of this thread is that making a line and betting differences is the ONLY way to make money.  Do you have an issue with that?

Whether I win or not should be no concern of you - and it is not the subject of this thread.  There is a method here.  I know it is going to be your kneejerk reaction to say "you suck" and tell me again that I cant make lines and cant win - but use your brain for an instant - and please tell me where I go wrong with the method.

Then - and only then - can we have a discussion that benefits anyone.

dyamarik says:
06/28/09 09:27AM

Couldn't agree more.  Sounds like the lines are moving in favor of the bet that the gambler wishes to make which could be costly over the long run. 

 

GH and Van have the right formula - compare the posted line to the odds chart - if you think your team has a greater chance than the percentages, then you play it. 

 

Personally, I never take a fave over -150.  Reasoning is simple - the best team in baseball right now is .640 win percentage.  That is pretty spot on for most years, so if the best team in baseball only wins at a 60-65% clip, then it stands to reason that they also lose at a 35-40% clip.  So if you are playing a team at a higher price, you will be lucky just to break even money-wise.

 

Keep up the great posts guys...

rxpert says:
06/28/09 09:17AM
van, you don't have to placate the newbies who jump in here claiming 70% winners, or looking for them. anyone on here worth their salt knows who the top hcappers (you're one). as many have stated before, we come in looking for anything vanzack etc. wrote today, hoping to find an edge on game that will get us over 55% winners. Most of the bashers are losers betting $25 a game, when they're up a few bucks, they over bet their bankroll & blame someone's picks for that day.
G8RB8 says:
04/05/09 02:33PM

Moist wipes
baby power

Mark_The_Narc says:
04/06/09 03:20PM
Nice thread guys.  While 99% of the posts on here today are useless this one comes through. 

 

Unfortunately, it will be overlooked by the plays of the month and locks of the year threads on opening day.

 

 

Bluefin says:
04/05/09 04:17PM
Vanzack,Game Hunter,SteveA2009 Thanks for your thoughts you guys obviously are well versed here and much help to all. I have been betting baseball and all sports for many,many years long before internet books so looking for value in lines has never been a number 1 priority the local books were always close sometime off a dime but that usually followed a guys clientele,lots of neighborhoods might lean catholic for example so on BC games the irish books would have tons of BC play you could get better line from jewish books but never as big a difference as I see between online sites I also do not remember double minus lines which I see quite often online 1 team -120 the other -110 juice on both or no fav, anyway  your points have alot of merit and  I will pay close attention to all of your posts this year and maybe this old dog can learn some new tricks. BOL to all.

   

GameHunter says:
04/05/09 03:33PM


Of course with all due respect, I have no problems with a capper in the main forum listing his reasons on why he likes side "A" over side "B" without mentioning a line. To me, if you can find several subtle reasons why you like Team "A" to win that aren't the obvious reasons, then I think what you are saying is that you think Team "A" has more value than the line is giving them even if you don't mention the line.
GameHunter says:
04/05/09 03:35PM


how do they have the worst lines in the world? I would assume that if you think they have the worst lines for the sides you are playing, then people on the other side of those same game must think they have the best lines in the world???? What makes their lines bad?
GameHunter says:
04/05/09 03:48PM


It's one thing if a book has 10 or 20 cent lines when other books offer better ones...and it's one thing to say that book has bad parlay and teaser odds and rules...but I honestly don't understand what it means that a book has bad lines.....bad lines say on favorites means it is probably the most attractive book for a dog player....
brooklyn1 says:
04/06/09 03:52PM
    there used to be a betting group called "the Kosher kids" and this is the way they bet baseball..(they only bet baseball)  they would make a line and their line was stronger than the vegas line..they NEVER liked a team just the line..and they were the BEST betting group in any sports betting ever.

 they would rate their plays and bet from small ,medium,large and large plus,,most of their LARGE plays were big dogs ,very few big favs...

  will you be posting your plays every day and could you post your line I would be very interested to see, you are one of the few that I've seen that get it on how to bet baseball !  

thanks in advance  

HowWinWolf says:
04/05/09 06:33PM
Van nice writeup, nice effort
LRM704 says:
04/05/09 01:08PM
Great thread, personally I like the 5 inning wagers in baseball.

 

 The game takes on a different look after the batters have had a chance to see the pitcher the first time up.

 

 

djbrow says:
04/05/09 02:46PM
Van:

 

Re: Betting every dog---have you figured out how many games you would need to win to break even? I realize it depends on the game and the price, but rough estimate. For the first 3 days (starting tonight), it appeared to me that going about 10-15 would put one even. I use bookmaker, so I would probably need to have dogs win 11 games.

 

 

HappyKane says:
04/08/09 05:11PM
Just chiming in.

 

If you can't find winners, whether its a favorite or an underdog, then your handicapping skill sucks or your handicapping regimen isn't good enough to identify the value/winner on either side.

 

I think "winner" is a better word to use rather than "value", simply because...

 

80% of the people on Covers.com are sheep. They can't settle for less than a 55% success rate even though a sub .500 handicapper could still be profitable by October 2009.

 

When August rolls, an undervalued Aaron Harang will be more profitable than an overvalued Johan Santana. But, if your handicapping regimen can't identify the "winner" in a matchup between said pitchers and if a certain handicapper makes a play on Aaron Harang solely based on the "value" principle, that handicapper is a "loser", for that day because the Mets won.

 

The thing is, who is dumb enough to bet on Aaron Harang every 5 day he pitches? And it'd be even more dumb to bet on Johan Santana everytime he pitches. Tell me one person that does that. Find me that person. I highly doubt it.

 

Get my point? If you can't find "winners" period, you or your handicapping skill.... SUCKS!

 

I've no doubt some a few handicappers on here will probably be down 20 units before they are up a single penny on their books using the "value" principle. Not good for a site where 80% are looking for "one-hit wonders". 

 

Talk to me about a grind and i'll see you guys in October where we'll all eventually be winners, i hope.

HappyKane says:
04/08/09 05:46PM
An illustration of my ideology of "value" hunters/handicappers:

 

A "value" handicapper will bet on 6 underdogs today, hoping 3 of them will win.

 

A "talented" handicapper will be able to identify at least 1 game [out of 13 games] and be confident enough to bet max units on that game, and vice versa for games where there isn't much "value", if said handicapper choses to bet more than that 1 game.

 

I think you guys have gotten this advice before. If you want to "grind" you MUST flat-bet.

 

I am not a proponent of the flat-betting principle but i do agree its a very useful money management system. For the "value" handicappers, that is.

 

An advice for people using variable units. Narrow the margin and hopefully, you have sturdy bankroll. Generally, 1-3 units is ideal as flat-bettors have a variance of 1-2 units. But if you're unlucky or not good at picking "winners", a variance of 1-5 units could be disastrous, especially if 5 units is more than 10% of your bankroll.

lrempel says:
04/06/09 02:46PM
 Good stuff van. Been around since you have. Always like reading your thoughts. Before covers merger my handle was oilslick. Not sure you maybe remember. Regardless keep this shit going and hammer the bases this year. BOL
glyde69 says:
04/05/09 04:03PM

Pinnacle has Yanks -182  Balt +174

Betus has Yanks -200 Balt +170

If you play Balt, they are stealing pennies from you, but I think you will agree as a value guy that they add up.  If you are betting the Yanks, you just are getting straight up buttfucked.

glyde69 says:
04/05/09 04:12PM
Good stuff Steve.  Your style is very similar to mine in almost every aspect except playing totals(I hate totals in any sport). 

 

I look forward to reading some more of your stuff.

 

 

 

glyde69 says:
04/05/09 02:41PM
 

^^^^

BetUs has the worst fucking lines on this planet though.

atlheatholder says:
04/05/09 10:04PM

You serious, DOV? 

Have you noticed how those Bronx bombers have fared over the last couple of years?  

atlheatholder says:
04/05/09 06:27PM

 

Great info Van

GWarner27 says:
04/05/09 03:45PM


exactly. When i used bodog for a while, still don't hate them just don't have money with them at this point, i made a killing on dogs in CF.

...they do have like 15 cent lines at times which are completely ridiculous though, like a 3-point dog in CBB would be +145 on a regular book and only +125 on bodog is a good example
Jon_Campbell says:
04/06/09 02:41PM
Great blog, Van and some excellent insight. Good luck with the MLB season.
Mike_NYC says:
06/28/09 01:02PM
Who you liking today, Van?
Mike_NYC says:
06/28/09 01:37PM
On a more serious note, the "problem" I see with your approach is that you're asking every MLB bettor to act as their own oddsmaker. Not only to set a line, but to set a more accurate line than the professionals in Vegas do.

Now, that's not a problem for you, of course, but I doubt that you seriously expect that even 5% of all MLB bettors can accurately set a line, day in and day out. Again, I have no doubt that it has worked for you, but I don't think it's a viable option for most people.

What I do is try to determine which side the books and/or the toothfairy (sharps) are on by analyzing line movements and betting percentages, and then join in on the fun. I know we disagree with the idea that the books do back certain sides in certain situations, and that's fine. It has worked reasonably well for me, so far. In another three months, or after another full season, well, that may be another story.

Best of luck.
Mike_NYC says:
06/28/09 06:39PM
Touche.
Mike_NYC says:
06/28/09 08:20PM


While I don't agree with the tenor of the post, I personally would like to see some more of Van's plays. Thought-provoking, to say the least.


Mike_NYC says:
06/28/09 06:25PM


Understood.

And I still maintain that if every Covers poster attempted to handicap his own results, his bankroll would be empty in no time. I think you may be overestimating the capping skills of the vast majority of people on here.
WestHamUnited says:
04/06/09 03:25AM
Great stuff VZ GH and Steve A lots to keep in mind with the season coming up.
AChigurh says:
04/08/09 08:22PM
Do you use Vanzacks method of flat betting Fiendo??

You still use that Vanzack??

AChigurh says:
04/08/09 04:43PM
Vanzack.....

 

Howcome you dont add people as friends... I mean you must have your reasons... I enjoy reading you posts as you are one of the best posters to learn from on this site... Its just as pain having to go to search username Vanzack everytime I check if youv wrote something to learn from...

 

Id also like to send you a private message with a system iv been working on for critique without publicising it to the whole forum.. If you have the time or watever.. Please dont feel any pressure you wondering

AChigurh says:
04/08/09 04:47PM
Just wondering*
chip7222 says:
04/05/09 01:31PM
Well just called my book and I MUST get a couple of online accounts going. I took the braves tonight and my line was +120 when I see it a t + 123 WSEX and slightly higher on others. Bad thing i live in states and it takes some work to get a deposit on most of these sites. not sure If we are allowed to discuss this here, but do you guys have any problems or easy suggestions depositing ( US members) please IM me and I would appreciate it.

 

BOL

truckbed says:
04/05/09 02:44PM


amen brother
truckbed says:
04/05/09 02:36PM


betUS, call them, almost too easy
Orangemen44 says:
04/05/09 04:47PM
  Great Write up. 
number_cruncher says:
04/05/09 03:38PM
Excellent writeup
VegasMaxx says:
06/28/09 08:10PM
I take issue with you claiming to be a pro handicapper but you cant explain how you come up with your "statistical line"    And since you dont have a job why not post "your line" for all the games before the books put them out(this is key) and we'll see how you do for a month.   Not up to it???/  I thought so??

 

Basically post your method for capping  in detail (not this bs "i come up with a line")and post your lines before the books.   Starting with Tues games.   If you're winning after a month of making plays where your line shows value I'll shut the fuck up and do like this

 

Yeah, didn't think so.

VegasMaxx says:
06/28/09 08:16PM
From what I've see Vanzacks great gambling advice is use Matchbook.com and get a good number.  Well no shit!   Did you need to be told this?
VegasMaxx says:
06/28/09 06:15PM
What is there to learn from you Vanzack, you're an egotistical know it all jerk.  When pressed for how you come up with a line your answer is  I use simple statistical analysis and a gut feel.Wow great handicapping advice   You constantly insult the forums and then post one of the squarest plays of the year.
VegasMaxx says:
06/28/09 07:54PM
How do you make your line again?
VegasMaxx says:
06/28/09 06:47PM
I've never posted a pick of the week in my life.    Do you see me posting a record and trying to go tout?  No.  I'm just sifting through the bullshit and trying to find some guys opinions I respect(istealcable, GH, mega, webba,)   But you come across like a know it all genius (and I dont mind people talking shit) but I've seen absolutely nothing in your posts that represent a professional handicapper.
GAPS says:
06/28/09 06:56PM


Agree, this guy is full of it.
jwheels86 says:
06/28/09 09:16AM
It is apparently needed for many
jwheels86 says:
06/28/09 08:18PM

 

Just the fact that you are trying to judge someones whole body of work in one month shows how much you are not understanding. Its baseball for christs sake! You could be a little up after a month or a lot up after a month, either way it has NOTHING to do with someones body of work in gambling.

jwheels86 says:
06/28/09 08:12PM
Dont waste your time Van, there is one thing since I started gambling that I will never understand why people dont get it. The odds in gambling, they are everything and most just dont get value and math in gambling, which is why most are terrible and shouldn't be doing it or dont last long. People are dumb enough to simply think gambling is, picking a winner and seeing what your record is....

 

Everything you are saying makes complete sense trust me..

DOVJAK says:
04/05/09 06:39PM
BASEBALL IS ALL ABOUT PITCHING   AND THE BIG MONEY  TEAMS  
DOVJAK says:
04/05/09 06:40PM
BOL TO ALL
SteveA2009 says:
04/05/09 03:27PM
To answer the question of how to set your line....it's mostly a "feel" thing.  Once you've been betting baseball for a while you'll get a feel for what a "-130" game should feel like, and you the line comes out -150 you say to yourself, man, why is TeamA that big a favorite?  They're at home, the pitching is fairly even, they score about the same amount, they should be a small (-120/-130) favorite, yet it's -150.

The % chart that Vanzack provided earlier is of course very important.  When you look at that chart, realize that in any given major league season, almost every team will win at least 33% of its games, and in fact only a few will fall below 40%, and every team will win fewer than 67% and in fact most will be under 60%.  It is this informationt hat makes a lot of bettors, including me, avoid favorites higher than -150 (which must hit 60% of the time to break even).

One thing I do to "train" myself to avoid favorites is when I'm  handicapping a game that has a substantial spread (-140 fav or higher), basically if I find just ONE key factor that points to the dog, I will not bet the favorite.  Key factors include left/right splits, hot or cold recent performance, extreme home/road differential, etc.

[I will digress at this point and say that I personally pay ZERO attention to those stats about how this pitcher has done against this team in the past.  First of all, it is based ona small samplee size and is more likely luck than anything else; if a pitcher is good over the 200+ innings of a season or the thousands of innings in his career, what do I care that in 27 innings against the Pirates he has an ERA of 5.32.  Those stats are often accomplished over several years and this year's Pirate team may be totally different than the one of theree years ago anyway, and it's just 27 innings.  Maybe he happened to face the PIrates in the game when he was battling tendinitis that wound up putting him on the DL two years ago and he gave up 6 runs in one inning.  So what?  If the guy is a good pitcher I'm going to handicap him as a good pitcher and those pitcher-vs-team stats are going to have ZERO effect on me].

Anyway, like I was saying, if th ere is ONE key factor that points to the dog, I will simply refuse to play the significant favorite (-130 or higher).  The favorites I tend to play are aro und -130/-140 when I find that I have the better hitting team, at home, with the better overall pitching, and no contrary factors like left/right splits, great road performance by the dog, poor home performance by the favorite, recent hot streak by the dog, or recent cold streak by the favorite.   When all that comes together, I'll go up to -150 with the home favorite.  As you can imagine, it doesn't happen often.  Because if the favorite is a "name team" like Boston, New York, etc., when they have all these factors, the line is rarely that low.  Usually it's around -200.  I find these -140 type favorite plays in games between two teams that are perceived as mid-level so neither is a big name, but the one with the better hitting and better pitching is at home.

Otherwise, I tend to look for dogs.  I look for reasons that dogs are undervalued, such as a pitcher who has put together 3 or 4 good performances but is not well known yet, or left/right splits, or just the fact that they are at home.  An awful lot of "bad" teams which have a .400 to .450 overall record, play .500 to .550 ball at home.  Yet a good visiting team will still be a -140ish road favorite.  Hey, this "bad" team wins more than half its home games!  So if they have one of their better pitchers going, even against a good team, they should win at least 45-50%% of the time which is enough to make money at +130.

Once the season gets going, I play a lot of totals.  I look at each team's runs per game (which really doesn't have enough sample size to judge until late April, early May).  Then I adjust for the starting pitching and bullpens of both the teams.  And I come up with a reasonable total range for the game.  And I usually bet "whole number" totals more than "half" totals so that there is a chance of a push rather than a loss.  (If I go over 9.5, I lose with a 9 run game.  If I go over 9, I push with a 9 run game.  Having multiple outs, I will often find ov9.5-110 at one book and ov9-130 at the other, and I'll pay the extra vig to get the ov9).

By late May, there is enough of a sample that you can start looking not just at each team's average runs per game when computing totals, but various splits like their avg runs per game home or road, or vs LH or vs RH.  You CANNOT look at these numbers before late May because one or two flukey games can really skew them, especially the #s vs LH....a team might only have faced 7 lefties in its first 30 games and if ithappened to have one big 15 run game where the opponent started a lefty it is going to skew the overall numbers beyond any real meaning.

Evaluating pitchers:  ERA is less important than WHIP or onbase%-against, or slugging%-against.  ERA is affected by whether relievers happened to let runners they left on base score; by scorers judgement on errors; or by an error with two outs leading to multiple unearned runs even though the pitcher himself really should be responsible for all but one of them, the error didn't make the pitcher give up 3 more hits afterwards!

Recent performance is important because pitchers definitely have slumps and streaks.  However, I DO NOT like that "L3" (last 3) stat that they put in the paper.  One bad outing out of the three games makes the L3 number look bad....so a guy could have 6 good games in his last 7, but the one bad one was inthe last 3 so that L3 stat makes him look bad.  Or maybe he's played 3 good hitting teams in a row. Or maybe 2 of the L3 were before he went on the DL for a month, how could they possibly be relevant now?  I wish the newspaper would just stop printing that L3 stat because it is the most misleading damn thing in the world. 

I like going to the covers page that shows the last 10 starts in a column and looking at them, that gives me a MUCH better feel for how he is pitching, because I can see who they were against, what ballpark they were in, and how he really pitched in those games in terms of hits, walks, and HRs allowed. 

SteveA2009 says:
04/05/09 03:27PM
Continuing my last post....


Evaluating a bullpen:  start with the covers bullpen numbers.  I wish I

had time to keep charts of who the key relievers are and their

availability (did they pitch last night, etc) but this is just a hobby,

I have a full time job and a life, unfortunately.  So in  general I

just try to separate the pens into good, average, and bad based on

overall season, weighted towards recent performance (or konwn factors

such as injury or new guys jointing the pen, etc).  And I look at the

starter and see how often he goes 6+ innings; a starter who doesn't

finish the 6th moire than half the time is going to need MORE pen more

often which means that he will also be using more relievers and going

deeper into the pen which presumable means getting worse relievers; a

starter who always goes 7 won't need as much pen.


So when capping a total, I figure out how much the team should score vs

average pitching, adjusing up or down for LH/RH splits and for ballpark

effects (also if it's an interleague game I add about half a run to an

NL team that gets to add a DH to its lineup, and subtract about half a

run from an AL team that loses the DH in an NL park; maybe more if the

DH is one of the key hitters on the team's lineup).  Then I look at the

pitching:  the starter I assess very carefully and then I adjust up or

down a little based on the bullpen as appropriate.  And to find a game

I like I usually wind up with something like:  these two teams should

score 9.6 runs vs average pitching; I rate one team's pitching as

average (a good starter but weakened by a bad bullpen), and the other

team's pitcher is definitely better htan average.  So these two teams

should probably score 9 or less given the overall better than average

pitching in the game.  Then I look at the totals...if I can find an

un10 I will jump all over it.  If I can find an un9.5 with low vig I

will play it.  And I might even play an un9 if I can find one that is

+100 or better.


Anyway, I could ramble on and on all day about my strategies.  I try to

do writeups with my picks so you will see all this crap in action

during the season if you choose to read my posts.  I have to apologize

for one thing in advance:  I don't have easy internet access at work

and I usually don't get home from work until about 6:40 PM EST.  So I

will cap some games with the newspaper at lunch at work then when I get

home I will have to zip through covers to get the details I need for

all the early (7:05) games.  I will often be making my posts at 6:55,

probably often even as late as 7:03 or 7:04.  I realize that can't help

people but my schedule is what it is.  At least you might find some use

of the analysis I write up.  And of course I'll post my day game plays

in the morning before I go to work.

mrlou9 says:
04/05/09 11:13PM
I currently with a local book juice free. I really want to learn how to be baseball. I get that each line is sent on 100. I just don't understand which is better value. I am missing something and I don't know what it is. If Bos and NY are playing and the line is -110 is that I have to lay 110 to win 100 on boston or I have to lay 90 to win 100 on NY? I'm confused. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,

New to this stuff. ATS are easy.

vanzack says:
06/28/09 08:22PM

Dont worry - just bored on a sunday night - have a few minutes to kill - will throw some peanuts to the monkeys.

vanzack says:
06/28/09 08:27PM

Dude - listen for a minute - and read this a few times if you need to:

I DONT GIVE OUT PICKS AND LINES OF THE DAY.

I dont enjoy it.  I dont want to or need to prove anything to anyone.  I am teaching method here.  Everyone can come up with their own lines and practice this method as they wish.  The discussion is not about giving you a fish, it is about teaching a method on how to be successful fishing.

What dont you get?

Now once again, reread the above if you like.  I know you feel assraped and belittled, but try to supress your instincts to lash out - and use your brain.

vanzack says:
06/28/09 08:31PM

And the vast majority of people on this forum are squares.

Why?  Because they choose to be.  They are recreational gamblers.  They do this for fun.  Profitability is generally a secondary goal to entertainment.  THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THIS, BUT THIS IS NOT WHO I SHOULD BE READING THIS THREAD.

But dont confuse the issue.  The vast majority of posters here are recreational gamblers.  Another word for this is "square".  There is no disgrace in being a recreational gambler.  It just isnt what I am, and it isnt what you should want to be if you want to be profitable.

Simple.

vanzack says:
06/28/09 08:40PM

Never once "talked shit" about my lines being winners.  Please show me where I did.

I dont post my lines because I dont enjoy it.  Should I do something I dont enjoy to prove something to you - vegasmaxx of covers?  Please.

There are people here, and certainly people in the industry who know who I am.  People here have seen me move lines many times.  People here have seen my offers daily on MB.  I dont need to prove anything at this point (although I would gladly prove it to you on a wager - that would make it worth it to me).

But keep swinging junior.  You know you are out of your league here, and so does most who are reading this.  But I will entertain your stupidity.  Ball is in your court.

vanzack says:
06/28/09 08:49PM

You are funny.

vanzack says:
06/28/09 08:54PM

Since you are going to ask "why am I funny" - I will tell you.

You are obviously not working with a full deck.  You challenged that I was a "professional capper".  Notice that I never challenged you?  Never doubted that you could also do this for a living?  Did I ever question that you are a multi millionaire from gambling?

But as expected, you have to pull your dick out and try to compare it to me.  I have no idea if you made more money than me gambling - and that is exactly the opposite of the point here.

YOU QUESTIONED ME.  I NEVER QUESTIONED YOU.  If I did, please quote it.

So the challenge here is not if you are better than me, make more money than me, are better looking than me, or have a bigger dick than me (all of which Im sure I have you covered anyway) - but the challenge here is that you dont believe I am a "pro capper" (your words, and enough to make me think you know nothing about being a gambler - who uses "capper" except squares?)

Anyway, see if you can wrap your dull mind around the difference, and come up with an appropriate challenge.  I will wait.

vanzack says:
06/28/09 09:06PM

GL with that.

It would just make me another poser at covers.  Big deal.  Maybe I am.  Im just an 8 year poser that pays major books to post on here who I am in the industry.  Great.  Oh, and I also pay people to move lines to make me look good.  I am just a poser who puts up fake 10K offers on matchbook every day.  Great.

I wish there was an easy way to make a wager and relieve you of some of your money based on the fact that I am a "pro capper" - but there is not - and you know it - so its easy for you to hide behind that.  Oh well.  Just move on.  You will be happier not stalking me.  All of my stalkers lose in the end, and then are happier because of it.  Join the list.

vanzack says:
06/28/09 09:10PM

Some days 2, some days 10.

So far this season, averaging 4.45 per day.  But no limit - whatever hits the threshold I bet it - so some days none - some days 10.

vanzack says:
06/28/09 09:14PM

You say above you agree with my method 100%, and then you say I "fake genius".  You arent too bright are you?

vanzack says:
06/28/09 09:20PM

The downside of being better than everyone else is that people tend to assume you are pretentious.

vanzack says:
06/28/09 09:23PM

Please dont call covers posters blind.  Or squares.

vanzack says:
06/28/09 09:26PM

Actually, he must know who I am.

I lost an eye and I wear a pirate patch.

vanzack says:
06/28/09 09:29PM

Some people buy Charmin at Walmart, and some buy it and have it delivered from Whole Foods for triple the price.

Sports gamblers should all be walmart shoppers - and use coupons on top of it.  But then again, most sports gambler dont care about making money - they care about entertainment.

Good post though.

vanzack says:
06/28/09 09:34PM

Dude - in all seriousness - GH and I do two different things at covers.  He gets enjoyment out of posting his plays, I do not.  He posts his plays, I do not.  Why does that make a difference to you?  Im genuinely confused.

I come here and make a post about theory.  I dont say that I am the best "capper" here, you imagined that.  I didnt say that my way of coming up with a line is the best way, or even good for that matter.  I talk about METHODS here.  Why does that burn you?

BTW - GH totally agrees with my method, and I respect him too.  He is obviously a good "capper".  But why do you feel challenged enough to challenge me that I am not a good "capper"?  What do you know about me?  Can you actually tell from my posts here that I am not a good "capper"?  Do you have a crystal ball?

And what do I sound like, and why should I back anything up?  I dont get it.  What about me makes you feel the need to be challenging?

vanzack says:
06/28/09 09:35PM

And you proved that because I lost 2 games.

And Im the square.

vanzack says:
06/28/09 09:43PM

Covers is fun.

Peace and love.

vanzack says:
06/28/09 09:46PM

Everyone but you.

PS - "douche bag" is one word - like this - "douchebag".

vanzack says:
06/28/09 09:49PM

Im curious, which of these words did you need your dictionary for?  MLB PRIMER WHAT KIND OF BETTOR SHOULD YOU BE

Those are all pretty basic english words.  I would like to know what I am dealing with here.  Kind?  Should?  MLB stands for Major League Baseball.  Did you need to look them all up?

Congratulations on being able to use a dictionary though.  Next you should try out a thesaurus.  It will help your posts sound a little more genius - well - kind of more like mine.  I like to encourage morons to better themselves through resources like the dictionary.

Keep on keeping on!!

vanzack says:
06/28/09 09:51PM

No, this time Im really pissed.  I mean REALLY pissed.  Unlike the 1000 times before I had these exact same discussions at covers - this time Im really pissed and Im not going to take it anymore!!  My lawyers will be contacting everyone in this thread who publicly slandered my name.

vanzack says:
06/28/09 09:57PM

Alright Corky, Im going to try this one last time.

I dont enjoy it.

Read that again.  Read it again.  And now another time.  I even bolded it for you.

Now, think about it, mull it over, and then go ahead and post "why dont you post your lines" again. 

Maybe you should borrow your buddy in this threads dictionary and look up "dullard".  It might give you some insight in to your plight in life.

vanzack says:
06/28/09 09:58PM

You are on the list!!

My lawyers have never lost a case, and you just joined the list you dont want to be on pal!!

Have a good night, because tomorrow the legal hellstorm begins for you!

vanzack says:
06/28/09 10:00PM

As hard as you try, you will not get my picks.  I sprinkle my wisdom here and there.  Be thankful your miserable life lead you to this point where you have had the fortune of reading my words.

Dont be greedy.  You have received plenty from me.  Most dont get this much, you should be thankful.

vanzack says:
06/28/09 10:02PM

You called me a "mediocre-esque braggart"!!!!

You had the opportunity to call me a "full out all the way braggart" - but you only went for "mediocre-esque"!!  You jackass!!

I would call you a "mediocre-esque insult slinger"!!

Or a "mediocre-esque dictionary user"!!!

Or just a flat out moron.

Whichever works for you.

vanzack says:
06/28/09 10:05PM

You got at least an hours worth of entertainment.  That aint cheap.

vanzack says:
06/28/09 10:13PM

"Do can bash or insult..."

My lawyers have asked me to get a clarification of what you meant by this.  In English.

Thanks in advance.

My lawyers will be contacting you soon.

vanzack says:
06/28/09 10:25PM

Alright, Im going to kick this up a notch.  I didnt want to - but you made me.

GO TO THIS LINK.

Read it.  Then notice this sentence:  "term originally coined by vanzack at covers.com"

I am a linguist.  Proven by urban dictionary.  I am not a moron, and that is proof with proof.

Now just give up quietly.

vanzack says:
06/28/09 10:28PM
I didnt want to bring out the big guns, but you guys made me.

 

I expect complete silence in here after that link.

 

vanzack says:
06/28/09 10:29PM

Cuse grad here.

vanzack says:
06/28/09 10:29PM

I am also up for a dance off.

vanzack says:
06/28/09 10:32PM

This is what cuse grads become, jackoffs on covers, and urban dictionary linguists.

vanzack says:
06/28/09 10:36PM

Thank goodness that casino wasnt open when I was there.

I think a casino within driving distance when I was 20 would have been a disaster.  Im sure I wouldnt have graduated.

vanzack says:
06/28/09 10:48PM

You misspelled GOOGLE!!

"let me go gogol that"

let me go to gogol.com

 

vanzack says:
06/28/09 10:52PM

You did it too!!

Let me go gogol that author!!

You guys kill me.

vanzack says:
06/28/09 10:56PM

And now you misspell "CZAR" and "arcade".

Wait - Im going to gogol the drug tsar!!  Maybe he is playing pinball at an arcane!!

vanzack says:
06/28/09 10:57PM

No you are.

(I bet you arent done with me)

vanzack says:
06/28/09 11:02PM

Excuse me while I GOGOL that!

vanzack says:
06/28/09 11:03PM

I KNEW YOU WERENT DONE WITH ME!!!

I FUCKING KNEW IT!!

I am a mind melding mofo that has powers you will never understand.

LOOK UP ABOUT 6 POSTS - I said you werent done with me and I was right?

I guarantee you arent done with me now.

MORON.

vanzack says:
06/28/09 11:09PM

Now you misspelled "references"!!

"Excuse me while I refence my yard, my old fence is dirty!!!"

When will this comedy ever end? 

The drug tsar went to the arcane to play donkey kong, but ended up refencing his yard while gogoling how to do it!!!

Covers morons at their best!!

vanzack says:
06/28/09 11:10PM

I did it again!!  I knew you werent done with me TWICE!!

Lets make this a hat trick.

Ready?  Here goes.  You wont be done with me.  I guarantee it.

MORON.

vanzack says:
06/28/09 11:12PM

Soon you will be able to gogol it and refence your yard too!!

Glad you are enjoying it.

vanzack says:
06/28/09 11:18PM

Vas deferens ipso facto par excellence jimbo svarta probiotics stratavarius.

vanzack says:
06/28/09 11:25PM

And you did it again!!  I cant take anymore.  It hurts!!

You misspelled "urban"!!

"Let me tell you about my TURBAN dictionary"!! 

"Im going to gogol how to refence my yard while wearing my TURBAN"!!

Please stop.  My sides hurt.  Go back to school and learn how to spell!!  You try to use big words, maybe you should be in the next speeeling bea!!

vanzack says:
06/28/09 11:30PM

You are a few pages back.

Keep going.  It gets better.

Or as megamaniak would say - "It gets beatter"

vanzack says:
06/28/09 11:34PM

And now you misspell BEA ARTHUR!!!   Her name is not "arther" - its ARTHUR!!

Holy shit.  Let me stop for a second and breathe.

"Im going to go gogol Bea Arther while I refence my yard with my turban on."

  You are either a total douchemoron (registered) or just a very bad speeler.

 

vanzack says:
06/28/09 11:40PM

I did not have this in my spreadsheet, therefore it did not happen.

G8RB8 says:
06/28/09 11:27PM
PistolPete21 says:
06/28/09 09:25PM
at most of the responses in this thread

at people who think they can pick winners at a 55% clip or better every single year.

For all the monkeys in here, please answer my question: Can you pick (or do you know anyone) better than 53% every single season?

(I know, the magic 53% win percentage doesn't so much apply to baseball, but I'm expanding this discussion to all sports betting.)

When you answer "NO," you are implicitly agreeing with everything Van says. Of course, you don't know this. Once you concede this fact and it becomes an assumption, you have no choice but to face the math of sports betting.

I'm not going to waste my time pouring through statistical examples, but I'll leave you with an important nugget. Getting the best available line on a given game, increases your win-rate, on average, by approximately 2%. If you accept that in any random betting season, your win percentage rate will be somewhere between 45 to 55% (basically 50% +/- 5% variance), think about how far an independent 2% win-rate increase would help. Even if you're having the worst seasons possible--as far as the math goes--and you're picking 45%, you save your ASS by inching back up to 47%. If you're having an out-of-your-mind great season and are hitting 55%, and you increase your win-rate to 57%, you're raking in the money.
BarneysDad says:
06/28/09 08:38PM
BarneysDad says:
06/28/09 11:10PM


BarneysDad says:
06/28/09 11:11PM
this is a classic thread van
BustinPiles says:
06/28/09 08:46PM

 

I don't think I could ever get tired of reading that insult 

BustinPiles says:
06/28/09 11:00PM
Comic relief on a Sunday night 
Louis_IV says:
06/28/09 09:43PM
love it.......

 

vanzack

Mike_NYC says:
06/28/09 09:07PM
Van, if you don't mind me asking - roughly how many plays do you make per day. Obviously it varies, but are you more of a 2-3 plays per day guy, or 9-10?


Megamaniak says:
06/28/09 09:15PM
When being egocentric, self-aggrandizement is key.

 

     

Megamaniak says:
06/28/09 10:19PM

I mis-typed, my sincere apologies to your fragile ego MR. 4.45. I meant you were mediocre, and a braggart. But I was wrong.

You are all of those things and so much more actually. Add sensitive girly-man to the list, a pinch of xenophobic megalomania, and a dash of idiot. That's you buddy.

  All you got is MORON, really? The only one showing moronic and borderline lunatic tendencies would be you, the guy doing all the asssuming, yapping, and trash talking. You don't know from anwhere, buddy. Calmate! Trust that you don't want to have a battle of wits with me, mainly because you have to be a contender first.

Megamaniak says:
06/28/09 09:56PM

Exactly DOUCHEBAG... you responded exactly how I thought you would. At least your'e a consistent mediocre-esque braggart.

MR. 4.45!!!! Who blatantly admits that no one can document or verify his measly 10 dime plays. You got problems friend.

Keep your keeping on, and in the words of sagacious young man dubbed Bart Simpson... GET BENT!!!!

Megamaniak says:
06/28/09 09:44PM

Guilty conscience eh? How did you know that comment was directed at you buddy?

And are you talking to me... you think you're better than me, is that it?

You're one funny dude brother, personally I think you're full of hot air, a long-winded windbag, and terribly preachish. You're thread title alone proves it. (Like I got to get the dictionary out or some shit).

And if, and I stress "if" you're better than me... then who cares? This isn't a pissing contests ('cuz you'd definitely lose that), as long as I hit at a good clip and line my own pockets, who cares what you do, honestly.

 

Megamaniak says:
06/28/09 10:53PM

Gogol was a Russian novelist in the late 19th century, who mostly wrote about peasant life during the ol' school Tsar years. Go ahead and google it, funny guy. Damn man, you're like the Chris Rock of Covers, huh?

I knew my arcane reference would fly way over your lofty head. That's why I had to dumb it down for you as far as scientists were concerned.

Megamaniak says:
06/28/09 10:39PM

Wow, you smote me with that one buddy. I'm all downtrodden 'n shit now.

A linguist? With the likes of Chaucer, Dickens, Gogol and Stevenson? Hardly my friend. What you are is a self-aggrandizing smart ass.

I guess since you have been quoted by the online Urban Dictionary that you have the upper hand and now I must kowtow to your so-called genuis. This somehow validates your superiority complex? I guess with this logic, that makes Method Man, Ice Cube  Too $hort, and the whole Wu-Tang clique far more brilliant such figures as Aristotle, Einstein and Newton.

First time conversing with you, via the internet, and it will be the last. This is going nowhere fast, and frankly, I find you bombastically boring.

Megamaniak says:
06/28/09 11:19PM

Yea, the Great 4.45er has never had a typo, right? Laughable really. Fucking Dave Chappelle of Covers has struck again. You're a real card. I bet your Mom likes your jokes over a candlelight dinner. You telling me about anything URBAN is like saying the Ghandi wrote the Art of War. Don't know who penned the Art of War, perhaps you should get out an encyclopedia funny guy.

ARCANE: secret or hidden, understood by only a few; esoteric

Wow. Big shocker, you have no clue of what I'm talking about-- again. Keep on stroking yourself buddy maybe, one day, perhaps you get a life and learn some humility. Respectability will always be out of you grasp however.

 

Megamaniak says:
06/28/09 11:04PM

You're a idita MR. 4.45, you keep proving further with every post.

That Westernized "czar" bastardization is commonly accepted nowadays. But anyone who claims to be a wordsmith would already know that. Both spellings are in your dusty dictionary adjacent to your still wrapped thesaurus.

The correct spelling is "TSAR" funny guy. I took 3 semesters of Russian History along the way in getting my undergraduate degree actually, a couple years back. Let's see what you got-- Urban Dictionary refences man.

Megamaniak says:
06/28/09 11:06PM
Whoops... typing too fast. That should read "IDIOTA", sorry for the mistake gentlemen.
Megamaniak says:
06/28/09 11:22PM
Whoops. I had more typos. 4.45 is gonna make himself laugh again.

 

     

 

 

Megamaniak says:
06/28/09 11:29PM

This is my original quote Chris. No Turban at all. Any idiot fuck can realize they can hit quote and doctor up that quote and make it say anything they want.

And it's Spelling BEE, dipshit, not BEA like BEA ARTHUR who you probably are stroking off to this second.

Megamaniak says:
06/28/09 11:33PM

I'm glad some self-realization has kicked in. Good for you buddy.

Orangemen44 says:
06/28/09 11:32PM
Bea Arthur died right?  i heard Billy Mays died today too, damn all the legends are dropping left and right
Orangemen44 says:
06/28/09 11:38PM
Sorry to interupt but K Rod just walked Mariano Rivera
Orangemen44 says:
06/28/09 11:22PM
I told you, i dont speak spanish
Orangemen44 says:
06/28/09 11:16PM
 Im really eating popcorn right now
Orangemen44 says:
06/28/09 10:34PM
Yeah could be worse, we could have a horrible football team.  Oh wait. shit.
Orangemen44 says:
06/28/09 10:42PM

Yeah they just put up another hotel there, that place is unreal now. The only thing is they do not serve Booze, so the gambling is not as fun, but its still an amazing place

Orangemen44 says:
06/28/09 10:45PM

I would love to think so, its amazing after mcnabb left that everything just fell apart. SU has a histoic program, and now they are the laughing stock of college ball, its a damn shame.

We have Greg Paulis this year, of course if he went to SU in the first place we would be in a differnt spot right now.  Paulis was one of the best NY high school football players i have ever seen. he has records that wont be broke.

Orangemen44 says:
06/28/09 10:47PM

NY State has them by the nuts, its NY's way of getting back at them for taking thier land back or something like that.

Orangemen44 says:
06/28/09 10:07PM
 
Orangemen44 says:
06/28/09 10:28PM
can someone on the covers team please take this thread off the board, this thing started on April 5th. its a bunch of garbage at this point
Orangemen44 says:
06/28/09 10:30PM
Go Cuse
VegasMaxx says:
06/28/09 11:15PM
Ya luchshe vas v russkom, tak cho ne  ochen staraites
VegasMaxx says:
06/28/09 11:20PM
Nice bluff.  You'd make a good poker player I think Van.
VegasMaxx says:
06/28/09 08:47PM
It blows my mind that you dont even think you are talking shit.  Wow.   And since you brought it up heres a wager for you since I think you're full of shit.   The amount of "gambling winnings" you filed on last years tax return vs mine.  Keep it friendly for you big shot  25k.   You could probably get a cheap ticket to Vegas on Southwest
VegasMaxx says:
06/28/09 08:36PM
I dont think it's lashing out to call you out on being a professional handicapper.   If  you're making your lines anyway why not post them, especially if you're going to call everybody else idiots and squares.  It doesn't have to be in tout form "pick of the day"  Isn't this a sports handicapping forum?    And IT IS about your lines because you're the one talking shit.
VegasMaxx says:
06/28/09 08:23PM
Absolutely not. I agree 100%   But instead of calling the masses of people on these forums squares and idiots(and i'm not saying they aren't) Why not post your lines and methods.  Simple
VegasMaxx says:
06/28/09 09:12PM
You're right because putting up 10k wagers at MB dont mean shit, some of the biggest losers I know play 5x that.  Good luck faking genius in the future
VegasMaxx says:
06/28/09 09:01PM
I would never question you if you weren't constantly throwing little digs and insults into every one of your posts that make you seem like a big shot know it all genius.  It gets old.  And my statistical line that you are full of shit is 99% and my gut says 100%.
VegasMaxx says:
06/28/09 08:49PM
And I'm not a professional
VegasMaxx says:
06/28/09 09:16PM
No ,I agreed with your principle.  I didn't agree you could execute it.
VegasMaxx says:
06/28/09 09:22PM
And in the land of the blind(covers) the one-eyed bullshitter is king(Vanzack)
VegasMaxx says:
06/28/09 09:24PM
Like I said, you have to sift through the BS
VegasMaxx says:
06/28/09 09:29PM
  Yeah Yeah i know.  I just think it's wrong to insult people all the time if you cant back it up.  That's why I have a ton of respect for GH.  At least he posts his plays everyday.  I mean if you're going to sound like Van then you should at least back it up
VegasMaxx says:
06/28/09 09:58PM
You dont enjoy it or you cant do it?  Nevermind I know already.
VegasMaxx says:
06/28/09 10:04PM
I got nothing from you, which is what I was expecting
VegasMaxx says:
06/28/09 09:49PM
Dude do you swallow?
VegasMaxx says:
06/28/09 09:54PM
Bacially if you're going to act better and smarter than everybody else and you dont post your lines and plays all the time.....I mean WTF is that?????
VegasMaxx says:
06/28/09 09:55PM
You two should get an apartment in San Francisco and Twitter each other.
VegasMaxx says:
06/28/09 09:44PM
I've already stated several times that you insult people and come across like a douche bag handicapping genius and yet you rarely post.  Who wouldn't challenge that?
GAPS says:
06/28/09 09:56PM



GAPS says:
06/28/09 10:09PM


What's the matter?  Do can bash or insult other people but you can't take what you dish out...
GAPS says:
06/28/09 09:32PM


I wouldn't be calling other people stupid when you are the square that played LA yesterday and the under on Minny/St Louis Friday.  You think you are a genius?  You are a joke. 
GAPS says:
06/28/09 11:07PM


Hooray, I'm on the list!!!  The list of people on covers who think you are the biggest dumb shit on this site...
GAPS says:
06/28/09 10:56PM


I'm done you..You are a tool.  You take the award for the biggest jackass on covers.
GAPS says:
06/28/09 11:02PM


Your lawyer will be contacting me?  You mean your mom?

jwheels86 says:
06/28/09 10:58PM
astonishing
jwheels86 says:
06/28/09 10:45PM
How do they not serve booze? Do they not want dumb people's money? lol
jwheels86 says:
06/28/09 10:41PM
Will syracuse get better in the next few years you think? Of course they can always play Notre Dame
jwheels86 says:
06/28/09 11:13PM

 

Gogol.com is now alive

jwheels86 says:
06/28/09 09:15PM
Recreational gamblers are "action gamblers"... My dad had this problem, profit overtime was not as important as using gambling as an addictive drug to get action on a game.
jwheels86 says:
06/28/09 10:25PM
its amazing how butt hurt people get at someone for being condescending to what you are yourself saying. Cute really, you guys are just too tough around here to say the least though, please dont hurt or make fun of me.
jwheels86 says:
06/28/09 09:58PM

 

I would love to twitter you big man

jwheels86 says:
06/28/09 09:48PM
whats funny is you guys think you are getting at vanzack, but he is really only toying with you guys emotions for being so short sided.
jwheels86 says:
06/28/09 09:52PM

Again, exactly what i mean.

You are just making it too easy, im normally a jackass when needed but im having fun watching this be so easy.

jwheels86 says:
06/28/09 09:53PM

 

lol thats hilarious

AJLightning says:
06/28/09 10:34PM
How much for the spreadsheet? I might be able to gather some investors.

 

 

 

 

Sam90 says:
06/28/09 11:41PM
vanzack says:
06/29/09 12:01AM

My award is simply that humans like you exist for me to toy with.

It never ceases to amaze me.

vanzack says:
06/28/09 11:52PM

No, you are the most illeterit moron here at covers for sure!!

You made a whole post without a speeling error, and now you are some kind of genus???

Funny.

 

vanzack says:
06/29/09 01:21AM

It should be studied by scientists.

Seemingly intelligent people lose their minds with the simplest of stimulus.

Exploiting this gives me a bigger boner than a naked supermodel on the hood of my yacht.

vanzack says:
06/29/09 02:05AM

You are a misspelling machine!

Right on cue, you do it again!!

Gogol, a russian author.  Good one.  What is Yaho?  A famous Eskimo scientist?  Or Licos - is that a beetle in south america?

vanzack says:
06/29/09 02:23AM

This is where you are clearly wrong.  I am banging hottie ricans and other islander chicks, and posting on covers.

(I am fighting your misspelling of the word "ahdea" in your post - I am bigger and better than this)

But I must thank you.  You have proven to be one of the biggest dopes here by posting so much in this thread, and that is quite an honor.

vanzack says:
02/12/10 12:51PM

Wow.  This thread is funny.

I sit back an laugh like a schoolgirl at my humor.

vanzack says:
03/02/11 04:16PM

Not exactly.

The vegas linemaker comes up with a line to get equal action on both sides.

I come up with a line to predict a RESULT.

There is a big difference there.  The closer you get to predicting results, the more you can take advantage of the difference between the two.

vanzack says:
03/02/11 04:17PM

Couldnt disagree with you more.

vanzack says:
03/03/11 11:04AM

Bingo.  Very well said.

I think the statement that best sums it up is that I bet games that I think will lose all the time in MLB.

Nobody bets a +200 team thinking that team is going to win, or would they bet that team if they could only get +100.  The reason you bet a +200 team is that you only have to win 1 out of 3 to break even, and if you put their chances of winning at 35%, you will be up longterm.  You still think that team is going to lose that day, you are not "picking winners", you are taking value based on the difference between your assigned probability and the available market line.

 

vanzack says:
03/03/11 11:04AM

Look at the date of post 1.

vanzack says:
03/03/11 11:08AM

If the public at large bets for "winners", and are not "price sensitive" when betting, then it stands to reason that the betting line (which is there to balance action) will be uncorrelated to the actual probability of winning.

That difference, is what I hope to find and exploit.  I look for small differences between what I think a 50/50 RESULTS line is, and the bettable market line and bet the side that is value.

vanzack says:
03/31/11 09:26AM

bump for johnny gamble.

vanzack says:
03/31/11 09:31AM

Sorry, didnt see this until now.

Im not betting this MLB season.  My model is too expensive to run and has too much risk in todays sportsbook landscape.  I used to be able to get 1 cent juice and be able to trade off of those positions with zero commission, with little or no transactional cost and little or no risk.

Now it is totally different.  Even though I can still play at MB and Pinnacle - the risk and costs are too high.  I am a grinder at MLB, im not a supergifted telepathic handicapper like some of our resident covers posters - I make my money on pennies.  And those pennies - for the time being - have dried up for me.

I take a wait and see approach.  If something changes for me, I will jump back in - but for now I am just enjoying an extended vaca.

Thanks for the nice words BTW.

dyamarik says:
03/03/11 07:20AM

Good revival of a pretty amusing thread.  I needed a laugh this morning... 

spockgato says:
07/04/11 01:05AM
zackvan
jpero says:
03/01/11 11:31AM
great stuff in here.
help says:
02/12/10 04:58PM


The Joy of Painting
happycap says:
03/01/11 09:37AM

...brings the Monty Python... that was a highlight 

happycap says:
03/03/11 11:13AM

If the public at large bets for "winners", and are not "price sensitive" when betting, then it stands to reason that the betting line (which is there to balance action) will be uncorrelated to the actual probability of winning.

This is what I meant above when I stated "the line is for the public"... very good synopsis of why the line is what it is each day  

happycap says:
03/02/11 11:29PM

The truth is, if you don't already understand that 95% of sports bettors lose consistently, you have little hope of gathering Van's inferences here.  No offense, just frustrating reading all the recapitulated questions.... the line is for the public boys.

topperchris says:
02/12/10 04:33PM

  Whats it called?

hammer22 says:
03/02/11 03:12PM
VAN- it sounds like to me that you think you have the ability to come up with your own line better then the odds makers in Vegas put out?
hammer22 says:
03/02/11 03:25PM
Everyone is going to have their own opinion on betting baseball, I saw a million arguments last year about this but what gambling and winning money in baseball really comes down to is picking WINNERS.

I love when people say "yeah that game had a ton of VALUE even though it lost"

Yes you can make money betting strictly underdogs and hitting below 50%, so please save those comments.


mmac66 says:
03/03/11 02:26AM

Value has nothing to do with being 45%, 55% or 65%...if you don't bet spots where you have value, you really can't win long term.....If you believe that a team could win a game 40% of the time, and they only have to win it 30% of the time in order to be profitbable, based on the line.......then if you play it, you will win in the long run. You may or may not win that individual game, but you will play enough games that match that scenario that you can expect to have long term success......value means putting yourself in a position to be profitable over the long haul.......you can make bad decisions and still "win",  you can make good decisions and still "lose"....the problem people have with baseball is that they try to "win" every game....Everybody wants to "win" every game, but most understand that they can't so they try to put themselves in a position to have the bets they make be profitable long-term ventures.....my two cents. I know plenty here don't agree with it, but I honestly believe it's the only way to succeed at this.

pjrez says:
06/29/09 11:01PM
Spitfire15 says:
02/28/11 10:48PM
What happened to that guy with the afro who used to paint on tv?  Is that still around?  I love that show.
Dosan23 says:
03/03/11 12:06PM
Hey Van, are you still planning on playing with the offshore books now that matchbook is gone? If so, where are you playing?
Dosan23 says:
03/03/11 12:08PM
Hey Vanzack, are you still playing with the offshore books now that matchbook is gone.

If so, where do you play....thanks! Love your insight into all matters. Probably the most under appreciated poster here on covers.
jmitseff says:
03/01/11 12:21AM
err says:
03/03/11 12:31PM


Rob Ross, he's dead unfortunately. You can check on Youtube
AChigurh says:
06/29/09 02:28AM
Any of you Cuse grads there for the Todd Norley days
AChigurh says:
06/29/09 02:07AM

Does that mean that is not an updated picture of you, because i was really hoping it was

Megamaniak says:
06/29/09 02:18AM

WTF? You don't deserve me going back and checking up on my spelling errors man, believe that. If I saw you in the street, beat up and whatnot I'd go ahdea  and get like Isaac Hayes and WALK ON BY, got me buddy.

I'm glad you know some tidbit trivia bullshit. Shows a wide range of knowledge for sure 4.45. But who cares really? You must.

Here's my suggestion; Go ahead and get your yacht and find some broads You've been on this site since you were 13. You're missing a big part of your life right now typing away when you should be banging some hottie 'Rican or any other islander chick.

 

 

Megamaniak says:
06/29/09 01:54AM

Megamaniak says:
06/29/09 02:01AM

Ididn't misspell Gogol, who must people know is a famous Russian author. It's unfortunate that you didn't get an adequate and diversified education-- but what do you expect from a guy from Equitorial Guinea, right?

Megamaniak says:
06/29/09 02:04AM
Megamaniak says:
06/28/09 11:58PM
MR 4.45, I grow tired of your useless rants.

 

You have officially and unequivocally been exposed as the douchiest of the douchers that ever douched. Come and get your award buddy.

 

Good night all.

 

 

 

Megamaniak says:
06/29/09 02:36AM

Because of the truth and validity of this statement-- that is why you went on a pissy little rant. You're an arrogantt jackass and I hope people read this. These are facts.You can't say squat about me, 'cuz you don't know me, right?

You can't honestly believe you have accomplished in tarnishing my good name, right? If you are as stellar as you claim to be, you wouldn't be such a sensitive OCD chicken-head-eque type, ya dig?

  C'mon man, just 'cuz you keep coming on here and continuing to make pointless posts doesn't equal in you winning anything. I'll reiterate again, your one funny dude 4.45. Good luck on your non-posted 20K wagers and have fun on the raft... errr... yacht.

Megamaniak says:
06/28/09 11:49PM

Yup, that's the chap. And 4.45 says all COVERS posters are illiterate morons and whatnot. What gall from this twit, huh? Sheesh.

WendysRox says:
08/26/11 08:27PM
So far as I can tell (after reading 6 pages), the first page of this post is worth a bump.  After that, it turns into what amounts to a cat fight between schoolgirls.  But, admittedly, I have only read 6 pages.
glenndef62 says:
03/31/11 02:54PM

Supply_N_Demand says:
06/29/09 12:16AM

VegasMaxx says:
06/29/09 01:55AM
why dont you take Van to the food and fitness section and fuck

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

VegasMaxx says:
06/29/09 01:58AM
Van are you playing hard to get.  Does Jwheels have to spell it out for you.
VegasMaxx says:
06/29/09 02:06AM
And let Friedshrimp tape it      No offense FS.
jwheels86 says:
06/29/09 02:21AM
So are you gonna bend over or what, cant keep my shit out forever without action...
jwheels86 says:
06/29/09 02:04AM
jwheels86 says:
06/29/09 01:17AM
This really is amazing how people fall for anything and just keep on going.
jwheels86 says:
06/29/09 01:36AM
but you are soo stoopid and cocky and you donte wen any munny!!!!!11 joo think yoo sumthin huh? yoo aint goode!!!!!

 

gogol that!

jwheels86 says:
06/29/09 03:02AM
I only wish I could win as much as this guy.. Maybe one day I will start hitting 75 percent in every sport other than football
CBARocks says:
03/02/11 10:50PM
[Quote: Originally Posted by GameHunter]

Great stuff Vanzack! Despite the Hulk Hogan-Andre the Giant relationship Vanzack and I share, I have much respect for him and we are both on the same page in most aspects of sports betting.

Bluefin: I wanted to chime in as your question also has been asked of me often. While there is no set formula for calculating value, I find that in my research and analysis in a game, if I can come up with many small hidden factors (or at least non-public perception factors) that point more favorably than we'd think towards one side, then it means you will see value in that side against the line. Not sure if that helps but look for things that the average bettor may not see on the surface and you can find value without knowing exactly how to calculate what the line should be.

For
Are you goig to post your picks at cappingthegameforum again this year Thanks
CBARocks says:
03/02/11 10:57PM
how do they figure league trends for MLB under the against the spread section
cfbaseball54 says:
06/29/09 03:19AM
so basically van and gamehunter r gonna talk about betting with us but are too good to give us picks anymore?
cfbaseball54 says:
06/29/09 03:21AM
sorry gamehunter, i meant van and aj
3rdpig says:
02/12/10 12:08PM
3rdpig says:
02/12/10 01:58PM

I was looking for your chart...it was a informative thread until the pissing contest. 

Still funny.

squinta1 says:
03/02/11 09:08PM


Nope, hes dead. Something Ross i believe.
squinta1 says:
03/02/11 09:13PM




you clearly miss the point. This guys still around?

And Spit- pretty trees, pretty trees.....
squinta1 says:
03/02/11 09:23PM


Van,

Some of your comments seem somewhat contradictory. you say that most gamblers will go on and on about why they like a team, yet never mention the line. Then you say that the odds makers set there line, that is slightly different that yours, to get even action. So my question is: if the majority of gambler arent considering the line, then how is a slight adjustment from the oddsmaker going to make a difference in terms of action to the sides? Are you saying that they are balancing the amount of action from "sharps" and the majority of gamblers?

Thanks
Sosana says:
04/01/11 02:34PM
mtbaker says:
03/03/11 03:47AM
Jesus Christ Spring Training just started and we got an 11 page thread going already- some great stuff in the first few pages looking forward to the 30 page threads when the season actually picks up haha
bigzz says:
03/31/11 03:00PM
JKRACK24 says:
03/03/11 01:53PM

 

 bol come april

christubluff says:
04/01/11 03:22PM
allo.  i woud like to know how  point spread is working.  maybe  with an example.  thanks  allready.  
christubluff says:
04/01/11 04:15PM
hey  can somebody tell me how spread is working.  was is the spread.  an example  will help   thanks
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06/16/11 09:06AM
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