vanzack's Blog

Enjoyment of sportsbetting hampers longterm results...

By vanzack | View all Posts
Posted Thursday, September 25, 2008 02:40 PM   59 comments
Lets take a hypothetical wager.  I give you 30 seconds with each if 5 sportsbettors to determine if they are going to be longterm winners or longterm losers.  You win if you can tell me with accuracy and you lose if you fail to predict it right.  How would you spend your 30 seconds with each person?
 
I know what I would ask.  It would be one simple question:
 
On a scale of 1 to 10, how much do you enjoy studying for a game, betting a game, and watching that game?
 
From that single question, I can tell a lot.
 
I think there is a direct inverse relationship between enjoyment of sportsgambling and longterm profitability.  Those that enjoy the process the most lose the most – and those that get no enjoyment win the most.  Simple.
 
From my scientific double blind studies of covers posters – the ones that always get in to trouble are the ones who bet games because they love it.  People who are totally emotionally removed are the ones who do well long term.
 
I guess this is similar to real life because emotions cloud good judgment, but gambling amplifies this to 11.
 
What do you think?
Report Abuse
 
59 comments
comment Post A Comment
collegelifeAU says:
09/25/08 02:41PM
stoned and agree
jtvikes92 says:
09/25/08 02:43PM
Right on time.
cd329 says:
09/25/08 02:51PM
studying a game =10  most enjoyable part

betting a game =7  very tense after the bets are in

watching a game =1  try not to watch games i bet

yamaha990 says:
09/25/08 02:52PM
I agree, I usually go against guys who insist that their picks are going to win. I made alot a loot by going opposite on alot of the bozos that post picks in here.

Bunch of wannabes.

 

 

MaineRoad says:
09/25/08 02:59PM
I think you're absolutely wrong.

 

Of course, I'm at work, and you're anchored off Marina del Rey, so there's at least some chance I'm wrong.

fightintigraz says:
09/25/08 03:07PM
I personally think your both right and wrong..Your right because the "fan" of the sport usually has his judgement compromised week in , and week out. But, I know alot people in Vegas that enjoy there job and do very well. Most of them are very arrogant , and cocky, but still enjoy what they do to an extent..So I do hear what your saying , but I'd have to disagree to a point..
BustinPiles says:
09/25/08 03:09PM
What category does this guy fall in?   You gotta love the stuff you find on You tube 

 

George

andarmac99 says:
09/25/08 03:16PM
On a scale of 1 to 10, how much do you enjoy studying for a game, betting a game, and watching that game?

Studying - 10
Betting - 5 (shopping for good lines and predicting which why they will move - 9)
Watching - 1  I bet over 400 baseball games this year and I watched 5 at the most.
HutchEmAll says:
09/25/08 03:17PM
I think right to some extent.  Gamehunter indicates that he loves the process of crunching numbers and capping games (at least baseball).  All B.S. aside and if his numbers are correct, he's had a solid 2 years in baseball (maybe that's a stretch for some, but I'm just going by what I've seen posted).

 

I'm a recruiter and when I'm working on a deal that I see as a potential money maker, I get excited.  I also enjoy the process of putting a deal together.  If I want to consider myself in a professional type position, then I have to learn how to be objective in the wake of all that.  I'd think the same would apply to a professional who makes a living sports wagering.

 

This is certainly different then being an action junkie, etc., but don't you get a sense of satisfaction when you watch a game that plays out just like you thought it would?  Just like a project manager looks at the outcome of their project and says, "that's what we envisioned when we started this." 

I think there is a difference between garnering some emotional satisfaction from success or from the process v. letting emotion affect how you go about your business and how you make your decisions.

 

So I'm in agreement mostly.  I just don't think it's quite that black and white.

fightintigraz says:
09/25/08 03:19PM

On a scale of 1 to 10, how much do you enjoy studying for a game, betting a game, and watching that game?

This is there job, and they enjoy it, and do well..I thought that was part of the question

thip says:
09/25/08 03:23PM
I personally think what you wrote makes no sense what so ever.

 

If your a boss and your interviewing 2 potentional canidates.  You would want to hire the person that has no emotional attachment and does not enjoy what they do???? 

 

I love to handicapp, I'm good at it, I love to watch sports.  Its a win/win.  I do not have favorite teams.  I can give a rats ass who wins and losses as long as I cover the spread. 

 

I'm good at my job(as a PT).  I am pationate about my patients, about continuing my education.  Emotional investment will not let you fail and thrive to be the best. 

itsbadlands says:
09/25/08 03:25PM
pimp-this was some funny shit bro-dudes watsed with a ton of pill bottles on the shelf-sigh-the joys of life

totally agree van-my emotions are pretty much non existant anymore whether i win or lose-i just focus on money and thats it.I dont enjoy wasting countless hours of my life capping games but if it pays the mortgage or gives me gas for a week etc-it pays off in the long run.I set goals to win things i want and pay for them with winnings.....that will bring a smile from time to time but still its just about money in the long run.I am working on winning a boat now......i should have it by the end of the nfl season-

vanzack says:
09/25/08 03:26PM
I know its a gross overgeneralization, and doesnt apply to everyone.

 

I also guess after reading everyone here that the prep maybe shouldnt be included - maybe the question is "what is the level of excitment you get from watching a game you bet on".

 

I should think before I post - but this came to me like a lightning bolt - and Im too egotistical to filter my thoughts.

 

vanzack says:
09/25/08 03:28PM

I think you are wrong here.

I think that depending on the endeavor - emotional attachment can be good or bad.  If you are a volunteer at a homeless shelter - emotional attachment is probably a good indicator of success.  Same with a doctor - or certainly an executive at a corporation.

But its not the same for gambling.  You have to be emotionally detached to be successful - I am convinced of that.  I havent always been convinced - but years of experience with all types - and seeing people on here - Im convinced more than ever.

PINNACLE says:
09/25/08 03:45PM
There must be merit to this hypothesis.

 

I enjoy studying, gambling, and watching the games I wager on.....and yep, I lose often and for amounts I can not afford.

 

But thanks to Vanzack it looks like my current 7 year losing streak will be coming to a end.....starting today, I simply stopped giving a fuck.

 

 

 

j/k

KeyMaster says:
09/25/08 03:46PM
Alright, enough Hypotheticals, who do you like tonight?
KeyMaster says:
09/25/08 03:47PM
I am now emotionally detached from this thread, ok, who you like tonight?
cd329 says:
09/25/08 04:26PM
Van,

 How did my answers stack up to your thinking?  Maybe my whole process is wrong, would like to know.

cd

highside107 says:
09/25/08 04:30PM


Whoa, that girl in your avatar has some LONG legs. Who is she?
Consilience says:
09/25/08 04:39PM
Pimp, that shit is hilarious "7-9 on the locks...7-9" followed by the deep, long sigh...lol 
gus1689 says:
09/25/08 05:04PM

About the 5 minute mark, this shit gets hilarious

ChAoSoRb says:
09/25/08 05:06PM
i get to watch maybe 1/15 games i have action on..  i over extended my bankroll at one point, i understand that and will do my best to make sure that never happens again thats the only reason im down money this year as a whole.. you guys all love to study now but i know at some point loving to study will not be enough for ya... put in 2 hours a game and have a negative result time after time.. if you ask me long time winners comes down to having checked emotions, being able to back teams that nobody else in their right mind would, and money management...

i also ran into melancholy state when i lost all emotion when betting.. its a surreal feeling, you don't care about other things in your life that you should.. people, events, etc.. its a real surreal feeling, don't make this your life cause in the long run -110 is not in your favor
WendysRox says:
09/25/08 05:16PM
ESPN Magazine says:

"Sign of the Apocalypse:

WendysRox absolutely, 100% agrees with you, Vanzack."

Unfortunately, these are probably my #'s:

7
10
8
nostradamus12 says:
09/25/08 05:24PM
Basically agree - if you don't enjoyment the handicapping portion the most, you'll never put in the time and focus needed for long term results

 

Even if someone enjoys the handicapping and put in the time, it's no guarantee of long term results, however without it, there's no shot.

 

There's no point to getting emotionally involved the game, and only point to watching it would be for future capping purposes or additional insight on the teams, which can be done during the game or after the fact.

 

Being emotionally detached has at least a couple other advantages - you don't have to worry about the view of certain teams (good or bad) affecting the handicapping, and if a team has a bad game and you hold nothing against that team later if they become a favorable play nor get too attached to a team that provided earlier good results then it keeps the handicapping where it should be.

 

Although there's nothing wrong with enjoying the results of any good week for a few hours before the next week prep begins, just like any good football team that enjoys the victory for a short time before getting ready for the following week.

horses says:
09/25/08 06:29PM
respectfully disagree with this hypothesis...

 

it implies a correlation between enjoyment and being emotionally involved;  you can definitely enjoy sports wagering without being emotionally involved.

 

 

ShadowWarrior says:
09/30/08 05:50AM
you are very correct Vanzack. Getting too emotional in your betting will often cloud your judgement and make poor decisions, at the same time we are all human and can not help but get emotional. We are not machines or computers although some of us profess to be. We may be tired or angry or stressed from work or stressed from the kids/spouse or what have you and this can impact our decisions also. It would be great if we could eliminate all bias or feelings or emotion when it comes to handicapping. For me I get a kick of saying I was right or cheering for my pick. If I am wrong I admit I made a bad choice. But then I am not that serious a player, more recreational so that could be my reasoning. Now if I had to do this to live, that would be another story.
rev9246 says:
09/25/08 05:51PM
panther123 that pic clouds my judgement
ghayes420 says:
09/26/08 04:03PM


Amen, but add an eighth of Romulan and the wallet just starts opening up.
alloy145 says:
09/26/08 04:28PM
Hey VAN I NEVER BET THE TEAMS I ROOT FOR, that eliminates emotional attachment there.MOST, including me at times, LIKE TO HAVE A WAGER ON THE GAME THEY'RE WATCHING=playing with emotions! ALL IN ALL, most often bet for entertainment value.

 

Here's another question- What's a better BET A) College Football or B) CRAPS TABLE???

 

Thanks Van & BOL

UrdaddyinAZ says:
09/25/08 05:41PM
I confirmed this to be true when after years of capping, in July of this baseball season I just flipped a coin for my wagers and went 7 straight weeks without losing money. In my opinion, the more you study and the more you know about sports the worse you are at betting on it.

 

Just my opinion. It's not all about the money for me anyway.

montedamastiff says:
09/30/08 08:43AM
Some good shit here. Your changing it to the level of excitement was much better terminology. The only point I would disagree with is emotional attachment with being a doctor is not necessarily a good thing. Like handicapping (gambling is a bad word) science and logic are involved. You can not get to attached, you must keep a level of separation. Small point but this is Covers we all have to throw our 2 cents in.
jackdfan says:
09/27/08 07:57AM
You gotta bet with your head, not your heart.

You may love Middle Tenn. State, but if the good bet in on, say, UTEP, you gotta bet UTEP.

You gotta team you love? Throw them a few sheckles. Save the real money for the real bets. GLTA.

lindetrain says:
09/25/08 08:10PM
I think you can be a fan and still win money with the right discipline and knowledge...I don't chase, I limit my wagers, and don't force it on big games.  Now, I may miss the opportunity to capitalize on smaller conference games that I don't care for, but if I can still grind out a profit with the teams I follow then I see nothing

wrong than getting enjoyment from it...

 

Seems to me like the people you're classifying are those who will fire away on any nationally televised or big game, who do it just because they love watching football, not because they have solid angles and have a game capped correctly...

 

SecondAgain says:
09/30/08 08:44AM
Van, I'll have close to 10,000 bets this year (this does not include trading). How many would I watch? How many bets did I have last week that I can tell you the results of today? I bet some sports I'll never watch a minute of during the season, I couldn't even tell you what their colors are

A punters worst enemy is his emotions. Whats worse is the punter who studies too much, and that means he comes across too many opinions - posters, analysts, "experts", the media. They are (subconsciously) guided by people who have no fucking clue

I have a mate who is regarded as the best analyst of a particular sport in the world. He watches every game and replays with no sound, reads no newspapers and stays away from sports related websites. No opinion influences his decision but his own

as a viewer you have absolutely no influence on the outome of a game, so don't worry about it. If you stress about the outcome of a game you have outlayed too much. Cut back your bet size. Both your health and bank manager will thank you later in life

jimmymo says:
09/26/08 01:28AM

Speaking of clouding good judgment....In my case, throw in a 1/2 gallon of jack daniels on Saturday and all hell has broken loose by the 4:45 pm ESPN game......but god it is fun shit....

 

vpnyc1 says:
09/25/08 06:31PM
Funny shit, on the first Saturday of the college football season, I decided to do my laundry and watch a couple of movies during the day. My friend calls me about 200 times while the games are going on and asks if I saw a specific play. I tell him what I'm doing and he blows his stack!!! What kind of fan are you, don't you care if you win or lose money and on and on. I tell him watching the game will not effect the outcome so what is he so worked about. I hear from him later in the night and told him how funny he was and that we won a couple of hundred. If you can't detach yourself, then this is not for you.Most of us have jobs so this would probably be considered a hobby. Don't let it get too expensive.
LongTermProfits says:
09/25/08 11:20PM
van - great post - great thought provoking subject

i think hutchemall said it best

but i might be biased because i am in the recruiting business too, and approach sports betting in almost the same way he described - i love watching "the plan come together" - and when i lose i love figuring out why i made the wrong bet - and i love the anticipation factor of actually making the bet

...

bigvern1013 says:
09/25/08 07:41PM
I would say that when it comes to money management a successfull investor or a successfull sports gambler must truly lack emotion. When placing a wager you must  be stone cold...it is merely a part of business. Money is to be seen as ammunition. Nothing more. Emotional attachment to money is the downfall of every losing speculator.

 

However, a successfull sports gambler needs to have a fire in his ass...a desire to win and win often. He must see every bet as a winner, and every season as a potential gold mine.  He must be an eternal optimist...not a loudmouth fool or lead pipe lock guy, but a confident believer in his own ability to win.

 

It is my opinion that confidence and desire are emotions.  Without these two ingredients any potential speculator will be loser....a pissed off self-hating loser.

ChAoSoRb says:
09/25/08 11:05PM
lol is that reh dog?? talking to lindetrain
GAM says:
09/25/08 06:55PM


Second that.

Paging big_degenerate
DruDowns says:
09/26/08 11:34AM
Vanzack, I agree with you completely.

I would even take it a step further by saying that any handicapper who wants to see long term success should stick to betting sports that he doesn't even care about.

I bet almost strickly NBA, because I'm good at it. Why? probably because I don't care about it, don't like it, and don't get emotionally involved in it.

When I start betting sports that I am a fan of, say NFL or college football, I lose my ass. Thats probably because I enjoy football so much, and it invokes emotional involvement from me. That equals failure.

push79 says:
09/25/08 06:16PM

I agree, always thought that the greatest advantage sportsbooks have over us, it's our own emotions and how we let them guide us. If you can subtract your emotions from the equation, your chances increase a lot.

Emotions in sportsgambling usualy means bad bets or, worse than that, awful money management.

dcmc34f says:
09/28/08 09:24AM
Hey V, that's 3 questions you're asking, not 1, you IDIOT.
dcmc34f says:
09/28/08 09:32AM
Out of the 3 questions you asked, which "1", is the "1", simple question you would ask? You Idiot, who thinks he's smarter than every1 else. Again V, stop trying 2 b someone you ain't, my bad, ain't isn't in your vocabulary, figure it out.
dcmc34f says:
09/28/08 04:56PM
I know what I would ask. It would be one simple question:

On a scale of 1 to 10, how much do you enjoy studying for a game, betting a game, and watching that game?

From that single question, I can tell a lot. Hey V, which of your 3 questions is the "1" simple question you would ask you IDIOT. V, you're trying 2 hard again to make every1 think you're smarter than every1 else. Just 4 u V. I ended my sentence with a remark, therefore you don't put a ? on the end, but YOU already know that. From now on your new name is VANZACK HUNTING, as in Will Hunting.

HonLi says:
09/26/08 10:33PM
You had me at hypothetical
clowncar says:
09/25/08 05:50PM
This depends on what you mean by enjoy.

 

Chessmasters enjoy the game of chess , which allows them to put the necessary work into it to become great at it.  I feel enjoying the process of handicapping the games helps one to be a better handicapper.

 

Almost every person that we meet in life that are good or  near the best at what they do , also enjoy what they do.

 

If you mean that they enjoy the games themselves then i think you have a better point.  But enjoying the work that goes into predicting winners can only help in the process.

 

Just my opinion.

Chado says:
09/26/08 12:08AM
Heres my humble opinion on this topic. It takes years and sometimes decades to gain the maturity of being able to emotionally detach oneself from bad beats and poor money managment. Patience is a virtue and we learn something new everyday in sports gambling that is saved in our minds that will benefit us in years to come. Also, I believe that one must focus on a specific sport, league, or division, that they may follow on a regular basis making sure to watch every game in that department for important knowledge gained. Sticking primarily to the games you are devoted to, are most fond of, and that one considers their strong strong point gives an advantage. This allows one to obtain important information into to the players, teams involved, and the specific sport in genereal. One must stick with that ONLY and not steer off the road to something they are not as fimilar with as it will stray you to the curb, slowly but surely. Once one finds their stregth, has a goal, has gained wisdom from past experiences, and uses strict money managment only then will they profit succes in the long run of sports gambling.
siroz28 says:
09/26/08 04:46PM
You're right to certain extent. For example, I love my Eagles (Superbowl or bust in 08) but I cannot bet on or against them even almost knowing the outcome. Because they are my favorite team, I feel like they will beat anyone. And that goes for any Philly sports team. However, for the teams I really don't care for, I do pretty well. Before I bet, try to imagine the game in my head, each play and try to come up with the final score before looking at the spread. So as far as "I think there is a direct inverse relationship between enjoyment of sportsgambling and longterm profitability.  Those that enjoy the process the most lose the most – and those that get no enjoyment win the most.  Simple." you're correct but how can one not enjoy winning money? How bout that?
beersonfirst says:
09/29/08 01:33PM
Studying various strip clubs-8

beding a prostitute or girl friend - 10

Watching my wife gain 10 ponds a year- 1

AChigurh says:
09/26/08 12:51AM
I Enjoy the making money element   
Megamaniak says:
09/25/08 09:22PM
This is a jackass article man, straight up.

I enjoy capping games, and I never bet with my heart.

Get your GED and then we will talk.

You must have low expectations for readers/bettors on this site, I can't believe its even published really.

WendysRox says:
09/26/08 03:45PM
I am an amateur gambler, obviously.  In my mind, I justify placing a wager on a game by equating it to any other hobby - fishing, hiking, boating, etc.  And we can all agree that these cost money.

Ask a guy who hits the links as a hobby on the weekends if he spends too much money on it.  I think he'd say yes - at least his wife would.  I feel the same way about gambling - and, it's the only hobby where you may actually make money instead of just spending it.

And, by the same measure, I think you are missing out if you throw money on games, then don't take the time to watch them and enjoy the entire process - win or lose.
DiverRon says:
09/27/08 10:04PM
Vanzack:

A reiteration of what I hear every football season at least 100 times.

Thanks for being repetitive and restating the obvious!

sam1 says:
09/29/08 09:04PM
I just want to know whats up with that shirt??????????????
S_A_I_N_T_S says:
09/25/08 08:47PM
1st rule of investing and economics is that you cant have any emotion. That very much comes into play in 2 situations in sports betting; 1) Never play on any team that you are a fan of. It would be the same as investing in a company b/c you have a loved one that works there or runs the place. It is impossible to separate that from rationally thinking through a situation. It also will not allow you to look at things objectively. And 2) emotions can kill you when you are right or wrong on a game and you either start to chase or ride your streak. A strategy/plan must remain in place so that no matter what the outcome, you continue to work it, measure it, & make changes if necessary.

I certainly think you can enjoy capping, you just have to control your emotions and know your strategy is solid.

primetimeblitz says:
09/26/08 12:59AM
I don't agree that being emotionally attached to a bet will cause any ill effects. Whenever i watch my bets, i gain valuable information that can help me with my next bet and so on. As well, it allows me to evaluate my assessment prior to the game. For example, watching basketball live and betting it live can be very profitable. If you see the GS warriors running and shooting all day. It's going to be over even if its against the stingiest defence. However, when betting. You must have no stereotypes. Just because the red sox won the WS last year. I will not bet on them every single game. It's all about betting on games that you have a good feeling about. If you're betting on games for action then it will lead to bad bets later on the day or week.(Trust me, been there, dont that) You must pick and choose your game wisely. If you dont have self control, than you must change your ways before you go in the red. Keep in mind, bet what you can afford that makes you feel comfortable. Consisten wagers. No stereotypes. Just hope the ball rolls on your side 60% of the time and you'll be a winner. I believe in grinding before shining.
YARDGNOME says:
09/26/08 04:10PM
I think you make a very interesting point .....oops just stepped in some dog shit ,now what was i saying.
JuniorJazz says:
09/25/08 06:49PM

Good thread and pretty much agree with your revision of the question.  I do not agree with the idea of not watching the games that others have posted though.  I try to watch as many games as possible, but it has nothing to do with the money.  It's a sunk cost and getting excited about it will not change the outcome one bit.  Time spent watching the game should be dedicated to learning something about each team that may help you with a future wager and not sweating the action.  
Add your response:
Please note that the blogger has the option of reviewing all comments before they are displayed to the public. Your comment may not be published immediately.
 

Profile

User: vanzack
Joined: November 2001
Location: Equatorial Guinea
Team: Phoenix Mercury
Occupation: Government

Recent Posts

Archive

open2011
open2010
open2009
open2008

Categories

Advertisement